Cheating on wife

WOW, JJ, I guess she figure that she do a little for you so you would get off her back or hoping maybe it was a passing fad. I just don't understand these women.

WOW, JJ, I guess she figure that she do a little for you so you would get off her back or hoping maybe it was a passing fad.

Her real issue is a lack of commitment. She's good about making all kinds of promises (I'm going to lose weight, I'm going to exercise more, I'm going to...). But when it comes time to keep those promises, she lacks the necessary commitment. It's a systemic issue, not just with intimacy.

Her real issue is a lack of commitment. .

I am not certain it has much to do with commitment. I believe that people, almost all people, are completely incapable of doing certain things, changing themselves or being different in certain fundamental ways, because by doing so they would be trying to overcome an innate part of their character and of their core selves.

Perhaps they may earnestly wish to change, perhaps they do really make a serious effort. I think it will all be in vain if it goes against a person's innate character traits. Some things, will power alone cannot change.

@agracier so true what you just wrote! I wrote somewhere below how communication and openness is so important in a marriage - but what happens when a spouse loses sexual interest -- even if they want to do more or become more active, it's like you said eloquently and concluded Some things, will power alone cannot change.

I am not certain it has much to do with commitment.

I'm a firm believer in meaning what you say. If someone (my wife in this case) says they're going to do something, they damn well better do it. If they don't, it's a lack of commitment on their part. They've merely made a promise that they either have no intention of keeping, or are incapable of keeping. In either case, don't make promises that you can't keep! In my view, it's better to have never made the promise.

Again, it is a character flaw that was either ignored during your dating years or not enough time was spent getting to know each other. You are right, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. Sometimes, we try not to dig too deep for fear of losing someone because we are content to have someone in our life. I have been guilty of being blinded by the bliss and lust of a relationship then later find out the guy is only a "me" person and doesn't care about my wishes or desires. The issue is what do you do now as one gets older. You have to decide what is important to you.

Parking your pecker in some young little sweetie is all fun and games until you get caught. Then it get’s nasty and $$$$$$$.

Remember one thing: Collecting ex wives is the most expensive hobby a man can have.

Parking your pecker in some young little sweetie is all fun and games until you get caught. Then it get’s nasty and $$$$$$$.

Remember one thing: Collecting ex wives is the most expensive hobby a man can have.

. . . . due to the grossly unfair matriarchal laws.

That is why the MGTOW movement is growing and so many men don't want to get married. -- -- A WIFE'S pussy just isn't that valuable to a growing number of men today because the women the pussies are attached to just aren't worth the men's time, energy, money or attention. The men would rather stay free and single, get pussy where they can (and they can get it lots of places) and who can blame them?

I edited this to clarify my point because a couple of people clearly did NOT understand my original point.

SwitchableSusie

SS, you got it right!

A WIFE'S pussy just isn't that valuable to a growing number of men today because the women they are attached to just aren't worth their time, energy, money or attention. They would rather stay free and single and who can blame them?

I'm glad that these men are only valueing a woman's pussy when they are considering entering into a relationship, let alone a marriage. Because that attitude is very unworthy of me and any part of me.

Marriage is more than just about the sex. It is the time spent together doing those common interests that drew you together. It is growing the closeness you have outside of the bedroom. It is the time spent as a couple assisting and helping each other doing the daily routine things - dishes, cooking, housework, and shopping.

If all the man sees is a "hole to fuck" then there lies the problem. A woman, just like a man, is so much more than a fuck. One, at least I, doesn't marry someone for the sex. Because once the sex starts or does go you have to have something else to base your marriage on.

. . . . due to the grossly unfair matriarchal laws.

If men and women are worried about loosing their money, then get a rock solid prenup.

@SwitchableSusie said

A WIFE'S pussy just isn't that valuable to a growing number of men today because the women they are attached to just aren't worth the men's time, energy, money or attention. The men would rather stay free and single, get pussy where they can (and they can get it lots of places) and who can blame them?

@MissStress said

I'm glad that these men are only valueing a woman's pussy when they are considering entering into a relationship, let alone a marriage. Because that attitude is very unworthy of me and any part of me.

.

YOU MISSED THE POINT. RE-READ IT.

THE WOMAN with the pussy is what has no value to them.

The men still value the pussy but will seek women not interested in trapping a man.

Yes, sharing hobbies and other interest are important but sex is also important too.

That is why the MGTOW movement is growing and so many men don't want to get married. -- -- A WIFE'S pussy just isn't that valuable to a growing number of men today because the women the pussies are attached to just aren't worth the men's time, energy, money or attention. The men would rather stay free and single, get pussy where they can (and they can get it lots of places) and who can blame them?

The point being made here is that perhaps due to negative experiences with women, and/or pursuing a career which leaves them with little time to spend on a relationship, and perhaps other reasons as well such as feeling women don't understand that they have a career that dominates their lives, there are some men who might forgo having much of sex life in order to avoid the problems (as they perceive them) of being in a relationship or a marriage (and I'm not saying a marriage isn't a relationship 😁 😁 😁 ).

The men would rather stay free and single, get pussy where they can (and they can get it lots of places).

Sounds like a mythical place to me.

I really think that the ease and prevalence of getting sex with someone you pick up, which some claim to be possible, at the proverbial drop of a hat, is vastly exaggerated. It's a way of approaching and thinking about sex by someone who is otherwise disapproving. It is somewhat derivative and a variation on the theme that society is on the road to perdition because of fornication and other unsavory sexual goings-on.

I've yet to see any evidence ...

I've yet to see any evidence ...

It depends where you are looking for that evidence.

"Don't ask, don't tell"... Not what I hoped for, but it's where we are.

Ironically, every time my too-dry Japanese wife and I talked about her eventual lack of interest in intercourse (unlike our earliest years together, when she couldn't get enough), the talk always ended with her saying, "Go get a girlfriend. In Japan, the man always does. Boys will be boys. But I don't want to hear about, so don't make it obvious."

Easy to say, not so easy to do... especially since we don't live in Japan, and most unattached women I know want "the full meal deal," not an occasional get-together for sex.

Something else that makes it less than easy... despite her "girlfriend directive," any time my wife and I are watching a movie or TV program where the guy has an affair, my erstwhile permissive wife starts spouting things like, "He's so stupid! Why he has an affair?"

HELLO?!? Three guesses why!

And for the final complication, she's very fond of asking questions, like where I'm calling from, or why I'm not home yet. And I do *not* want to lie to her, in any situation.

If we're in a true "don't ask, don't tell" situation, why all the damn questions?

So yes, I do have sex with someone else... and given that it's clear my wife has no interest in any effort to keep that part of her marriage vows (K-Y? Still hurts! E-string? Too expensive, and increased risk of cancer! ("I hear you, and I won't ask about either of those, again."))... and the fact that she kept invoking the "girlfriend" speech, my conscience is *mostly* clear. She gave me her permission, repeatedly.

But I find it disturbing that *she* doesn't seem entirely clear on the matter.

Whitman said it best. Do we contradict ourselves? Very well, then, we contradict ourselves. We are vast, we contain multitudes.

And I'm fortunate to know a beautiful woman who still wants to contain *me.*

"Don't ask, don't tell"... Not what I hoped for, but it's where we are.

Ironically, every time my too-dry Japanese wife and I talked about her eventual lack of interest in intercourse (unlike our earliest years together, when she couldn't get enough), the talk always ended with her saying, "Go get a girlfriend. In Japan, the man always does. Boys will be boys. But I don't want to hear about, so don't make it obvious."

Easy to say, not so easy to do... especially since we don't live in Japan, and most unattached women I know want "the full meal deal," not an occasional get-together for sex.

Something else that makes it less than easy... despite her "girlfriend directive," any time my wife and I are watching a movie or TV program where the guy has an affair, my erstwhile permissive wife starts spouting things like, "He's so stupid! Why he has an affair?"

HELLO?!? Three guesses why!

And for the final complication, she's very fond of asking questions, like where I'm calling from, or why I'm not home yet. And I do *not* want to lie to her, in any situation.

If we're in a true "don't ask, don't tell" situation, why all the damn questions?

So yes, I do have sex with someone else... and given that it's clear my wife has no interest in any effort to keep that part of her marriage vows (K-Y? Still hurts! E-string? Too expensive, and increased risk of cancer! ("I hear you, and I won't ask about either of those, again."))... and the fact that she kept invoking the "girlfriend" speech, my conscience is *mostly* clear. She gave me her permission, repeatedly.

But I find it disturbing that *she* doesn't seem entirely clear on the matter.

Whitman said it best. Do we contradict ourselves? Very well, then, we contradict ourselves. We are vast, we contain multitudes.

And I'm fortunate to know a beautiful woman who still wants to contain *me.*

Your wife is a collection of non-sequiturs and she wants to control you. She is lying to you about what she is giving you "permission" to do. If she was honest about it, she would say it's ok to fuck other women and she wouldn't keep bringing it up. I also detect a degree of covert bitchiness and to put you on a guilt trip. If you can afford it, I would suggest a divorce or a girlfriend..

Your wife is a collection of non-sequiturs and she wants to control you. She is lying to you about what she is giving you "permission" to do. Is she was honest about it, she would say it's ok to fuck other women and she wouldn't keep bringing it up. I also detect a degree of covert bitchiness and to put you on a guilt trip. If you can afford it, I would suggest a divorce or a girlfriend..

People are also a collection of walking contradictions and changing moods and ideas. We think ourselves to be straightforward and consistent in what we do and say and practice. But we mostly aren't. Some people are more consistent than others of course, but just because they say contradictory things, doesn't mean they aren't sincere each time.

That is why there are words like 'remorse' or 'fickleness' in the language. To indicate that people change their minds fairly often.

I'm not saying it makes things all right to be changing your mind about such matters, only saying that it is nothing new. Happens all the time, even when 'permission' is given with the best of intentions. I've had a similar experience during my wife's 22 year long illness.

My wife was okay when I was hot and heavy into bi activities years ago. Ironically, that was back when she and I were also at our sexual peak... She did not take part in my bi activity, and I kept no secrets about when and what I was doing. Even so, it was hard to shake the feeling that I was cheating. Yet, how could that be since I had her okay - Maybe it wasn't her, but the marriage vows...

Even so, it was hard to shake the feeling that I was cheating. Yet, how could that be since I had her okay - Maybe it wasn't her, but the marriage vows...

Marriage vows are a fucking joke - just a few canned words scripted during a stupid ceremony. Guilt comes from doing something you feel is wrong but you do it anyway. If having an affair or a bi-sexual experience makes you feel guilty - it's because you have you have some underlying reason to believe it is wrong - either the act itself or the fact that it is extracurricular, even if your wife is OK with it. Not because of some stupid words you said at your wedding!

@gwhap: So I take it you're not a fan of marriage vows, hahah...

OK. I admit to being completely old fashion in my thinking. The vow "to death due us part" is one I took very seriously and much thought was given before getting getting married and I did not have have sex prior to getting married (we learned how together which was adventure to make it as good as it is today). Today, vows for a lot of couples seem to be "so long as the love doth last".

Regarding loss of sex drive, I certainly am going to maintain my interest in sexual desires for as long as I can. And I want to keep it interesting for my husband so that the "grass in our own back yard continues to look greener than that of the neighbors". In part, the reason I come into zity, is that I get new ideas and admit to being sexually stimulated while chatting and also very rarely participating in role play.

I do have a bit of a feeling of guilt at times but I rationalize that my husband "benefits" from what might be considered lack of fidelity. I am a believer in that "if you do not use it, you lose it" and I for one do not want to lose pleasing my husband in as many ways as possible. I know that I would never cheat on him in real life even if he completely lost his desire and my own desire was still high. He is beginning to slow down a little bit (a little!!) but sometimes slow is good as opposed to "slam bang thank you maam!!" If he was to cheat, I would be terribly hurt as I could not love that man more than I do. Would we get divorced??? I just cannot answer that but I know I would not be dishonored in that way if it continued after finding out that he had done so. We have had discussions about how and why couples get divorced and are on the exact same page regarding fidelity issues.

I know this is old fashion thinking, but it is who I am. We both are being very diligent to trying to instill the same values in our four girls. I do not judge others in their values. Each person actions is strictly their own business as long as it is legal!! lol

Denise

We have a unique situation that is very different than most marriages. We deal with it not because of some stupid "vows" we said 37 years ago - it's because of the relationship and connection we have had ever since we met. We eloped and got married in Reno just to make it legal - the whole marriage thing to us was a joke.

We have a unique situation that is very different than most marriages. We deal with it not because of some stupid "vows" we said 37 years ago - it's because of the relationship and connection we have had ever since we met. We eloped and got married in Reno just to make it legal - the whole marriage thing to us was a joke.

It ISN'T a joke to the government.

OK. I admit to being completely old fashion in my thinking. The vow "to death due us part" is one I took very seriously and much thought was given before getting getting married and I did not have have sex prior to getting married (we learned how together which was adventure to make it as good as it is today). Today, vows for a lot of couples seem to be "so long as the love doth last".

@Denise Don't get me wrong about commitment. My wife and I are very committed to each other. I just do not attribute that commitment to vows taken in a church ceremony, or justice of the peace or by Owen Wilson. I believe I am as committed as you are - just view it differently.

FYI - In Colorado you can marry yourself or have a friend or even a pet marry you - just get the form, both sign it and file it with the state. No vows, no ceremony. Commitment comes from within. And it isn't "old fashion" to have the relationship you have. I agree with your last statement - today getting married is more frivolous and often lacks commitment.

AWHAP: I totally respect your thoughts and just because a couple has a religious or other ceremony of their choice and say some words, your commitment to one another truly does come from within you. I thank you for your comment and respect it totally. You and your wife are truly blessed or lucky or whatever you choose to call it, to have one another. I hope you are not offended that I think you are blessed to have one another. 😃 Denise

It ISN'T a joke to the government.

Marriage is, aside from the question of bigamy/polygamy/ mainly a question of civil law.

That is, it has to do with codifying financial and parental responsibilities, matters of inheritance and such. These are not matters that a secular government concerns itself with, other than to provide services ( namely civil courts) to see that the prevailing civil responsibilities or personal contracts (pre-nuptials) are enforced in an impartial manner.

Theocratic governments concern themselves with moral aspects of marriage, secular governments on the whole do not.

Aside from bigamy/polygamy, secular governments do not concern themselves with financial/parental matters unless a case is brought to civil court. (don't bring up Child Protection Services since anyone and everyone harming a child can be charged, not only parents).

Marriage is, aside from the question of bigamy/polygamy/ mainly a question of civil law.

That is, it has to do with codifying financial and parental responsibilities, matters of inheritance and such. These are not matters that a secular government concerns itself with, other than to provide services ( namely civil courts) to see that the prevailing civil responsibilities or personal contracts (pre-nuptials) are enforced in an impartial manner.

Theocratic governments concern themselves with moral aspects of marriage, secular governments on the whole do not.

Aside from bigamy/polygamy, secular governments do not concern themselves with financial/parental matters unless a case is brought to civil court. (don't bring up Child Protection Services since anyone and everyone harming a child can be charged, not only parents).

If you can get hauled into court over a matter, THE GOVERNMENT IS DEFINITELY INVOLVED --- CIVIL OR NOT.

FURTHERMORE, pre-nups are NOT impartially enforced.

Child Protective Services is a DISGUSTING group of social workers, shrinkologists and law guardians (at least that's what they are called in New York State) who generally side with the mother and that the father is forced to pay for when there is a disagreement between the parents even when the mother is wrong.

If you can get hauled into court over a matter, THE GOVERNMENT IS DEFINITELY INVOLVED --- CIVIL OR NOT.

g.

If you wish, you could consider civil law and civil courts enforced arbitration.

But before cases can be brought to a civil court, at least one of the concerned parties must bring suit. If no one does file a suit, the government will not bring a case. Ergo, civil law matters re marriage are not the government's concern or purview.

That's your interpretation of government involvement.