I May Make Some Guys Angry

Oh my god, are we back to the circumcision rant again? Who cares?

In this thread, we are not on a rant, but discussing things calmly and rationally.

Is there a difference, isn't there? Can it matter somehow in a physical way? Why do people even decide to cut off the foreskin of newly born boys? How do they rationalize that decision? Does it result in any long term permanent changes?

What sometimes irks me - in abstract way I hasten to add - is people who have no way of knowing there is any difference, no possible way of knowing because of gender or birth circumcision, making wide, definite and all-encompassing assertions and pronouncements on what circumcision changes or does not change. Circumcision, in the US at any rate, to cut or not to cut at birth, has seem to become part of the culture wars, one of the many cultural traits and customs that are passionately defended out of tradition or association with a certain mindset or a wish to arrest change.

I find that process fascinating from a social point of view. Why do groups of people passionately defend a practice that probably serves no purpose or incur any discernible benefits? Or are there benefits after all? If so, which? How did this unusual practice come to be accepted as normal in one country and not in most others? Why did an otherwise mid eastern religious practice come to be accepted as a social norm? This last is especially odd and fascinating as the main American religious affiliation proscribes circumcision as part of doctrine since the Middle Ages and before.

I know this is not a scientific discussion or study, but it should at least be conducted according to rational principles.

Seems to me like evolution elected to cover the glans for some reason - but I won't suggest that I have any idea what that reason is.

I did read an interesting tidbit recently, that proposed the reason for the shape of the penis head - specifically the ridge (or crown) is designed that way to draw/scrape semen out of the vagina - in the event that another male had attempted to breed the female before you.

Seems to me like evolution elected to cover the glans for some reason - but I won't suggest that I have any idea what that reason is.

I did read an interesting tidbit recently, that proposed the reason for the shape of the penis head - specifically the ridge (or crown) is designed that way to draw/scrape semen out of the vagina - in the event that another male had attempted to breed the female before you.

Well @ImDoug I do not think it is shaped like that to draw semen out but I have seen articles that say that the foreskin helps the penis glide in the vagina and it does not scoop out a woman's natural lube. I know not everybody thinks that and it created arguments in my group of friends when we started talking about whether circumcised is better than uncircumcised. Some did and some did not and we just agreed we should not talk about it any more. I have only been with my husband so I can just say I love how sex is with him, and he is uncircumcised.

I think the foreskin evolved to protect the glans and we have the clitoral hood too, and it is good that I have that hood because my clitoris is very sensitive. To me it makes sense to say that is why the foreskin is there too but I know I am the wrong sex to know for sure. But I try to put myself in men's place and not just think I know it all.

@liquidsky I think you are right that only men who were uncircumcised and got circumcised later when they were adults can really know what difference it makes.

I suspect that the reason why it is generally thought that the uncircumcised penis is more sensitive is that it is -- at least in one sense. If I pull my foreskin back and leave it there it is uncomfortable in my underwear. It is very sensitive, though perhaps the better word is tender. I am sure that if I did that all the time that in a few weeks my penis would "toughen up" and I would also get used to the new sensations -- as circumcised men do. But the sensitivity that I am aware of when the foreskin is retracted is not really a sexual thing. I am not surprised that studies and personal experience indicate there is little if any difference sexually between circumcised and uncircumcised men. I think a lot of people conclude, improperly, that the sensitivity/tenderness of an uncircumcised penis with a retracted foreskin also means enhanced sexual sensitivity. If it did you would think that uncircumcised men would come more quickly than circumcised men, but that does not seem to be the case. And would you want to come more quickly? It is not clear that greater sensitivity, if it did exist in uncircumcised men would be a good thing. More intense but shorter sex is arguably not better.

@soggypaws said

I suspect that the reason why it is generally thought that the uncircumcised penis is more sensitive is that it is -- at least in one sense. If I pull my foreskin back and leave it there it is uncomfortable in my underwear. It is very sensitive, though perhaps the better word is tender. I am sure that if I did that all the time that in a few weeks my penis would "toughen up" and I would also get used to the new sensations -- as circumcised men do. But the sensitivity that I am aware of when the foreskin is retracted is not really a sexual thing. I am not surprised that studies and personal experience indicate there is little if any difference sexually between circumcised and uncircumcised men. I think a lot of people conclude, improperly, that the sensitivity/tenderness of an uncircumcised penis with a retracted foreskin also means enhanced sexual sensitivity.

I think your argument is quite well thought out. However, your personal perception about what amounts to sexual sensitivity can only be that - personal. Not everyone finds exactly the same things sexually stimulating. For example, some men like women to be quite rough with their penises whereas I actually like a more gentle touch. Therefore, for me, that sensitivity you speak of most definitely IS sexual - for me. Some of us do prefer light foreplay.

I don't think we should get into telling others that certain kinds of touch and sensation are not sexual just because it isn't that way for ourselves.

For what it's worth, here's my opinion;

I grew up uncut and enjoyed the pleasures of it, in may ways. Then one day my gp said my frenulum is too high connected to my head and kinda short, so when I would retract the skin my head bended down. He asked if it didn't hurt or gave complications during intercourse, I said no, it didn't really bother me that much.

A couple of years later I had a friend working in a hospital as a student a surgeon. He proposed to do a frenulectomy, free of charge, lucky for me. (and it was very well done). After it was healed I experienced some loss of sensitivity, which bothered me somewhat at the beginning but I got used to it. In fact, it was a good thing, because I can much easilier postpone ejaculation, which is even better for my sweetheart.

Then, maybe 10 or 15 years later I was circumcised, now 5 years ago. I enjoy very much my current situation, I love it as well as I loved it to be uncut.

It is just another feeling.

So my point of view, though I have lost some feeling from the frenulectomy, cut or uncut (beside medical reason) it's all the same.

So I agree with Switchablesusie.

This conversation is rather fascinating, but once again analyzed into the ground. Where are Masters and Johnson when we need them? Or did they only study female sexual response ad nausium?

This sort of reminds me of earlier conversations about labia size and shape or puffiness of women's "mons pubis." Add high firm breasts to the mix. it only matters if you want it to. Another reason for people to be self-conscious, which truly inhibits sexual pleasure in some form or another. ( Try not to think of "hippopotamus" during sex and it will be even better. )

It seems to me that Susie's original post and her subsequent responses are right on, IMO.

Didn't mean to trivialize topics which might be very important to some people. The only topic I know much about is being self-conscious. I am very slowly overcoming some of it as I age. Hope we're all OK.

@ Mathgirl, yeah, it would be great if the descendants of Masters and Johnson continued their work.

And don't worry, some topics are indeed more or less important to some people, but in a certain way we all share the same greatest hobby on earth.

That's what we have in common.

Lots of opinions here which,as usual, are interesting to read. However, the OP said that there was no difference in sensitivity between cut and uncut, and I have to disagree in part.

If we are talking about sensitivity during sexual activity, I believe there have been studies measuring the time taken to reach orgasm between cut and uncut, and there really isn't a significant difference. I am uncut, and my own anecdotal evidence would support that, since I have always taken longer to orgasm than I would like. I obviously have no extra sensitivity.

However, if we are talking about non-sexual sensitivity, I can assure you I am extremely sensitive. I think it was @agracier who suggested ways to "de-sensitize" it, but I'm afraid I have no desire to keep my foreskin retracted under my clothes for days or weeks to "toughen it up". I cannot stand to even have the glans touched lightly, when exposed. It's not painful, just extremely uncomfortable. I obviously cannot know, but I don't think a man with a cut penis would have that problem.

Thankfully, in my case, add a little lubrication to the equation however, and all is well with the world 😄

Going back to the top!! When it comes down to it, really, does it matter?? "'Ya' got what ya got!!" I couldn't tell ya' the difference....'Sawbones wacked mine off when I was born so I never knew!! Any way, just a note,"It's not the size of the Wand or what it is covered with, that produces the Rabbit from the Hat.......but....the "Magic" of the Magician!!!!!!" And "SUE!!!" I do believe that from your writings, I can see....that ....."YOU!!"..... are "Quite the Magician!!!!!!!!!" I can just "Picture".... "You" ....Black Stiletto Heels, Black fish net stockings and accompanying Garter belt, Black "G-String Bikini Thong" bottom and accompanying Bra, a little short Black Tuxedo-Vest with diamonds, studs and sequins all over, Long Black Velvet Gloves and last but not least ...the "Black Top HAT!!!!!!!!"................

Did I forget anything??????

With a most vociferous "Click!!!!!,"

highwater

PS..........Oh Yes, "The Whip!!!!!"

I think it was @agracier who suggested ways to "de-sensitize" it, but I'm afraid I have no desire to keep my foreskin retracted under my clothes for days or weeks to "toughen it up". I cannot stand to even have the glans touched lightly, when exposed. It's not painful, just extremely uncomfortable.

I didn't keep my foreskin retracted out of any particular sexual desire. But I always rolled my eyes to high heaven when circumcised members kept on insisting there is no difference in sensitivity. How could they ever know unless they were circumcised as teenager or adult? And even then, the (slight) trauma of the operative procedure wouldn't have allowed anyone to appreciate a gradual differing of sensitivity anyway. The difference in feeling would have been sudden and by the time everything healed, who would be able to distinguish what was the cause of what?

So I figured the only way to experience a (possible) shift in sensitivity, would be to try it out on myself. I had to start over a few times before i could get through the daytime, then through a whole 24 hours and progressively so on.

I was circumcised at 20. Everything worked pretty good but i could not retract very well. When playing Dr and patients at a young age 9 or 10 or so, we both girl and boy examined pussy and penis very thoroughly with much excitement. But later i could not go inside a woman because it hurt too much, i can say that sex with a woman now i am circumcised is still very great. I cannot remember life anymore as an intact, i have no problems with underwear or bed clothes nude, so desensitised? Maybe a little, but not enough to worry about.

I'm one of those guys that Agracier is mentioning, who had plenty of sex before and after an adult circumcision.

Please note - n=1 here! I can only speak of my own experiences.

Is sex better post circumcision?

For me, yes.

Is there a difference in feeling?

Yes.

Do I last longer now?

No. Not in the least. I know this is often thrown around but I've not noticed a whit of difference in this regard.

Any regrets?

none at all.

Let me talk about feeling because this is what this thread is about. I've said this before - sensitivity does not equal sexual sensation. My eyeball is very sensitive but if i stroke it with my finger I'm not going to feel a lot of pleasure. And what Agracier says is something I agree with strongly - so much of sex is in the brain.

But physical sensation....Before, when I had a foreskin, sex was amazing. Afterwards - sans foreskin, sex is amazing. There is a different quality to the sensations though and this is always going to be a subjective thing. The best way I can describe it (which isn't very good), is to imagine someone rubbing the palm of their hand across your back, versus someone scratching an itch on your back you can't reach. That's the best metaphor I can come up spontaneously.

With the foreskin, the pleasure was very generalised and i felt it across a larger area in my penis. Nothing wrong with that.

Without my foreskin, my pleasure is a lot more concentrated, mainly in the area of my circumcision scar and the inner foreskin skin I have remaining. It feels significantly more intense, but in a more defined location. So, essentially, I'm describing the difference between less sensation over a greater area, vs more sensation in a more confined area.

Personally I prefer the latter, but that's not even a point of argument - you can't argue personal taste. It's my preference. For me, more sensation in a smaller area = more pleasure. For someone else, the opposite may be the case. Either way, sex with and without a foreskin is wonderful.

The only (ONLY) caveat I'll state here (and it's nothing to do with this conversation), my only regret about my adult circ, is that the cosmetic results are not as 'good' (subjectively) as those done in childhood. Children and their growing bodies just heal so much better than adults do.

snoman said:

Please note - n=1 here! I can only speak of my own experiences.

Do I last longer now?

No. Not in the least. I know this is often thrown around but I've not noticed a whit of difference in this regard.

That is exactly what I found in my "research" where n= about 100 men.

The human brain is very, very good at adaptation. Circumcised or not, men are obviously virile enough to make everything work. For as long as circumcision has been practiced, we wouldn't be here today if there were a very significant difference in sexual function and sensitivity. After all, the brain is the body's most important sexual organ...

Snoman made an interesting comment about aesthetics.

I was disappointed with my circ until I had a revision a few years ago.

In fact the surgeon who did the revision was excellent and totally understood my disappointment with the original circumcision so he did a revision and now it's perfect. I still have a scar but it's very small and I actually like it. I had to see a urologist not so long ago and he asked me how long I'd been circumcised so whilst I still have a scar it's only noticeable if a urologist happens to be doing an examination.

I wear my scar with pride I suppose.

Oh and by the way before I get a barrage of abuse I was circumcised as an adult and it was entirely my decision for medical reasons.

Even if the sex is exactly the same, circumcision for the sake of tradition or "looking like dad" is still a needless and barbaric exercise in male genital mutilation.

KC P I would not call it barbaric... having several friends who felt the need for one reason or another to have an adult circumcision they all expressed how much they wish they would have had it as a baby. All of them claimed no difference in sensitivity, everyone of them claimed sex was far more enjoyable now. I can not know what it feels like to have a foreskin as I am cut, were I to have a child I would likely make the choice to have him cut not because I am but because I have only ever run into 2 gentlemen who I have heard express any regret over having lost their foreskin. I have known 5 men who had serious medical conditions due to their foreskin, and 3 others who just wanted it gone. Adult circumcision is always an option but more of a procedure than as an infant.

PS: I am cut and use no lube of any kind to masturbate. So the mention that cut guys need lube is not true in all cases. Indeed I have an uncut friend who prefers to oil himself up before taking things in hand so i think for many lube or no lube is purely a personal preference.

PS: I am cut and use no lube of any kind to masturbate. So the mention that cut guys need lube is not true in all cases. Indeed I have an uncut friend who prefers to oil himself up before taking things in hand so i think for many lube or no lube is purely a personal preference.

I have jerked off cut and uncut guys and none of them preferred to be jerked off dry.

Cut or uncut, lube is good. It makes your hand wet and wild, more like my wet pussy.

Susie I'm going to weigh in as an exception to your study. I never masturbate with lubricant because I don't masturbate my glans. It's simply too sensitive. Remember that the most pressure in intercourse is at the introitus from the PC muscles. I grab the loose skin over the shaft. And I'm circumcised. I'm not getting into that quagmire of which is better.

I can't imagine jerking off dry nowadays. I'm not 12 any more. KY, coconut oil, conditioner (my favorite), olive oil, etc.

Susie I'm going to weigh in as an exception to your study. I never masturbate with lubricant because I don't masturbate my glans. It's simply too sensitive....And I'm circumcised.

@liquidsky Count me in as another "exception". The head of my penis isn't what I like stimulated. And 95% of the time I don't use any lube.

I'm not concerned about being an exception or not to any particular "norm" of male orgasm production. I am what I am and fortunately feel fine about it wth no complaints, regardless of etiology. I was not circumcised as a baby, possibly due to severe illness(es?) in infancy as well as being an American born overseas at a US Army hospital in a war-torn country (Japan) in 1952. Probably relevant is that I happen to have a very mobile, not excessive, just very pliable and without adhesions, foreskin. I've masturbated very pleasantly and successfully for over 50 years and I've never used a drop of any kind of lube. I'm very happy to use whatever lube is available or required for any other sexual contact, including pussy fluid or external lubes, but I not only don't need it but would find it annoying and intrusive during masturbation. Depending on the circumstances, I just move my shaft skin and foreskin up and down, sometimes partly or fully covering my glans, as far and as fast or slow as I want during any given event and it always works perfectly being "dry." And the orgasms were always great.

To me, being more or less sensitive from being uncut is never a problem and completely academic.

In fact the only thing I ever thought about as far as being intact was that with some women, depending on PIV dynamics, my foreskin may wind up staying partially "up" over part of my glans during PIV. So, occasionally it would enhance my sensation to reach down and pull it down to let more glans contact pussy. Sometimes one pull was enough but occasionally for maximum sensation I'd keep my hand down there for awhile to keep it pulled off my glans. Each GF or ex-wife was different. But this was just a normal feature of uncut PIV and never a problem of any kind. And I never heard a complaint, except a couple of younger woman in my 20's wondering if I would fit. I always did.

Eric

I have jerked off cut and uncut guys and none of them preferred to be jerked off dry.

Well, you've never jerked me off I guess ... ha ha ha.

I virtually never use any lubrication, except maybe sometimes when taking a bath so that I can wash it off easily afterwards. In fact, there was a time when I liked using talcum powder, but that is done now since the powder in the air is something I prefer to avoid for my remaining lung.

My girlfriend/wife also never used any lubrication when jerking me off. It was just never really needed.

I can't imagine jerking off dry nowadays. I'm not 12 any more. KY, coconut oil, conditioner (my favorite), olive oil, etc.

@KC_Patient Suggesting that not using lube is somehow a 'childish' method of masturbation, is just as stupid as Freud saying that women climaxing from clitoral stimulation is 'infantile', and that REAL woman should orgasm from vaginal stimulation and penetration only. Each person can decide how THEY like to receive pleasure, and it's not open to judgment.

Personally, I like to use lube on rare occasions, but only when I'm going to take a shower right after because of the mess. Wiping off a lube still leaves me feeling sticky and that feels pretty gross to get dressed like that.

@SwitchableSusie While not scientific, so far we have 4 out of 5 masturbators surveyed recommend a dry penis for their penises who like masturbation. 😁

I always use lube to masturbate, and use lube with my wife. I am uncircumcised and very sensitive. Since I also practice extended tantra sessions (both masturbation and sex with wife), my penis skin would get very sore if i did not use lube. And lube (coconut oil is the best!!) makes it much more enjoyable!!

. . . . Personally, I like to use lube on rare occasions, but only when I'm going to take a shower right after because of the mess. Wiping off a lube still leaves me feeling sticky and that feels pretty gross to get dressed like that.

@SwitchableSusie While not scientific, so far we have 4 out of 5 masturbators surveyed recommend a dry penis for their penises who like masturbation. 😁

No need to take a shower if you just need a "local" clean-up.

Here is a link for something you need:

https://www.amazon.com/Sabalkos-Turkish-Luxury-12-Piece-Washcloth/dp/B00KQQTVM6/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1509321797&sr=8-19&keywords=washcloth&th=1

These are really excellent.

I am uncircumcised and have been jerking off for 60 plus years. Only tried a lube a few times and did not find it helped. I do just fine with none.

Don't you "jerk-off dry guys" like fucking a wet pussy?

Why don't you like jerking off while lubricated?

The guys I've been with overwhelmingly liked to be jerked off wet.