HPV Vaccine

@switchablesusie Exactly.

@reggind

What is wrong with you? I mean really, what is misfiring in your brain that tells you it's a good idea to throw your hat in the ring over an issue you are indifferent to in such a crass way to someone whom is personally affected

Your attacks are low class and not appropriate. Please desist. Unbelievable

.., if you really want to lament something, go right for the real root cause and lament putting the dick in you that carried the virus in the first place, or not using a rubber.

@reggind Holy fuck you are being an ass! Have YOU used a condom every time you had sex in your life? Are you sure YOU don’t have HPV and aren’t spreading it around?? If your wife, GF, sister, mother, daughter gets cervical cancer are you going to tell them “well, you should have watched what dicks you let inside you!” ????

Unbefuckinglievable!!

We’re with you Bridgette! Fight it and win!!

I don't want to stifle debate on such an important subject, especially when it personally affects a valued member, so at this time I'm not going to delete any posts.

But I do ask that we all cool down. Let the discussion move on and continue calmly.

Guys

Nothing is even proven yet, we can say in 20 years st the earliest if that stuff really helps

And NOBODY should be forced to get any sort of injections or treatments at all! Plus, here in Germany many girls even died from that injection cause it caused many problems

My better part denied to get it when she was in the age to get it and it was almost a fight cause the doctors office more or less wanted to force her to get it, and? Guess what, she is still alive and as happy as she can be

@DocV said

And NOBODY should be forced to get any sort of injections or treatments at all! Plus, here in Germany many girls even died from that injection cause it caused many problems

You said the same thing earlier in this thread -

https://www.zity.biz/index.php?mx=forum;ox=display;msg=868823

Well in germany many people already died from that injection so i dont recommend anyone to really get it

You didn't answer @CJ1999's request for a reputable source supporting that statement.

So where is it?

If what you say is true, don't you think there would be broadly discussed news stories and urgent enquiries into the safety of this vaccine?

DrZ thx for taking your time and responding to my post

I appreciate it

The thing is, I could post you enough links from it from German sites

But, does anyone of you read german? If so I’ll post some stuff within the next das

The thing is, I could post you enough links from it from German sites

But, does anyone of you read german? If so I’ll post some stuff within the next das

I'm not a German speaker (English, French and Spanish only), but machine translations will be accurate enough if necessary. There are others on the site who no doubt fluently speak German and will be able to read any material you provide more easily.

I'm most interested in what you mean by "many". You have to put numbers on that. Is many three? Five? Ten? Hundreds? Thousands? Also, how many have actually taken the vaccine?

At the moment I have to be sceptical I'm afraid.

Perhaps instead of lamenting not having had vaccine that may or may not be effective in you, and may or may not have unintended side effects, if you really want to lament something, go right for the real root cause and lament putting the dick in you that carried the virus in the first place, or not using a rubber.

This is unnecessary and extremely mean spirited. I am disgusted. You owe bridgette an apology.

We will NOT be returning to that.

Let the matter go.

DrZ honestly, i think it doesnt matter how many die, if just one person dies from an injection that is already TO MUCH but i will post some news links

DrZ honestly, i think it doesnt matter how many die, if just one person dies from an injection that is already TO MUCH but i will post some news links

My point is that if one person dies out of, say, 50 million who have taken the vaccine, it does not justify using the word "many", and it certainly doesn't justify condemning a vaccine with a loosely worded statement that doesn't contain any actual facts.

So how many is "many"?

We will NOT be returning to that.

Let the matter go.

I read and reply to posts in sequence. I had not seen your post when I replied to Reg.

DrZ honestly, i think it doesnt matter how many die, if just one person dies from an injection that is already TO MUCH but i will post some news links

Should all medications that one person has died from be taken off the market?

Here you go with some posts

but the way i see you here, you have something to say against every post

https://www.welt.de/gesundheit/article4667989/Britisches-Maedchen-stirbt-nach-HPV-Impfung.html

https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/schreckliche-fehldiagnose-arzt-bezeichnet-maedchen-als-traege-nur-wenige-stunden-spaeter-ist-sie-tot_id_5539961.html

https://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/index.php?id=4972

https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/38299/Grossbritannien-Maedchen-stirbt-nach-Cervarix-Injektion-Todesfaelle-auch-nach-Gardasil

https://www.zeitenschrift.com/news/drei-maedchen-gestorben-viele-mehr-ernsthaft-erkrankt-nach-hpv-impfung#.W3W31yh4XpM

There you go, dead enough? to justify or do i have to find more for you?!

The risk, if that, is so insignificant to render any debate meaningless. Look, driving a car, flying in a plane, or just crossing the street has risks as does climbing a ladder or swimming. If one wants to react by banning or avoiding as a solution to something that may make you anxious, it's your right to do so, but public health policy has a far greater responsibility. As a parent or individual, you live with the consequences of choices. Do what you feel is best. In his instance, I choose for my children to have a vaccination.

@DocV - Thanks for providing the articles, but I'm afraid they don't support your use of the word "many".

The second article can pretty much be disregarded, as it lost its credibility as soon as I saw the involvement of the UK newspaper the Daily Mail in the reporting. It is not exactly known for its objectivity, shall we say.

Bizarrely, the articles mainly speak of individual cases in the UK while stating that in Germany in 2006, 22 women aged between 15 and 20 died out of 2.3 million in that age group. That is 0.00096%

In the USA, the figures up to 2009 suggest an even lower percentage than that, 26 deaths out of over 25 million vaccinated - 0.0001%.

The articles all seem to say that no causal link between receiving the vaccine and the deaths has been established.

What a fiery debate.

My two cents: I've seen people (here on Zity and elsewhere) defending routine circumcision of baby boys because it reduces somewhat the transmission of HPV and thus the risk of cervical cancer for their female sex partners. If we are willing to put up with a body modification that changes body functionality somewhat for a reduction in transmission, then we are surely willing to accept some risk in vaccination, which has a much higher success rate.

DrZ honestly, i think it doesnt matter how many die, if just one person dies from an injection that is already TO MUCH but i will post some news links

The "if just one person die" argument is specious.

At least one person will die from just about ANYTHING we use or build! If the argument were valid, there would be no airplanes, automobiles, swimming pools, refrigerators, or stoves.

How can you ignore the fact that many more than "just one person" is SAVED from death by any of those things? How can you fail to do even a rudimentary risk-benefit analysis of a product?

Back in the 50s and 60s, mumps, measles, polio, and smallpox were commonplace. Now they are so rare that they are considered DANGEROUS, because vaccines have all but eradicated them. Yes, a relatively few people died from reactions, but how can you deny the usefulness of vaccines for preventing disease and death?

DrZ i give up

whatever i say is not right, i could send you personal letters from ppl who are friends of mine and you still would have something to say against it

just dont ever dare yourself again telling me i am "abusing" a word

just cause you are a mod doesnt mean that you are always right and thats what you want to push through at the moment

@Nick321 , very well said.

DrZ, thank you for clearing that up.

The most recent data by the National Weather Service states that your chances of being struck by lightning in any given year is approx. 1 in 1,042,000 or roughly 0.0001%

I think that puts some statistics into perspective.

@DocV , I literally laughed at your immature response. I dont need to defend DrZ by any means but let me clarify a few things for you. Being a mod has absolutely nothing to do with DrZ’s statements or questions. He simply asked for proof of what you are claiming as did @CJ1999. As soon as someone disagrees or questions your claims you go and cry that you are being picked on.

We are an intellegent bunch here and do not like to spread hearsay on such important matters.

If you are giving an opinion that is one thing, everyone is entitled to one and regardless of agreement of said opinion it should be respected.

However, to claim something as true and factual you need to be able to back it up and that includes by reputable sources not rag trash newspapers or magazines or your so called letters by friends. Now let me play your ridiculous game for a moment. Were the individuals that we’re supposedly died from the vaccine given an autopsy and that was the cause of death ?

Come on now, sad but how factual would a letter be ? That is just silly.

If it was the case that the vaccine or any other for that matter had a risk that outweighed the benefits of it, do you really think drs themselves would have their loved ones vaccinated ?

The articles all seem to say that no causal link between receiving the vaccine and the deaths has been established.

It's not just the deaths, but how many have reactions to the vaccine that will impact them for the rest of your life.

This isn't a discussion I really want to get excited about but I will say my daughters have been vaccinated against HPV, but there were several vaccines the pediatrician wanted to give them as children that I refused. Some vaccines definitely have more problems than others. I don't give a rats ass if someone does or does not want to get vaccinated against any disease and I will not suggest a vaccine to anyone more than once. I don't try to convince anyone to get a vaccine as you could glean from my earlier posts here. I am against forced vaccination because if a person gets vaccinated, they are protected, others who chose not to be vaccinated will not have personal protection but will benefit from herd immunity if enough people are vaccinated.

When the swine flu was popularized a few years ago, many of my nursing friends and doctors refused to get the flu shot because it wasn't a good vaccine by any stretch of the imagination and they all decided they would play the odds against getting the flu. I have never gotten a flu shot.

It is up to each person to do what they think is best for themselves and their families.

DocV said

just dont ever dare yourself again telling me i am "abusing" a word

Your use of "many" is a gross exaggeration.

As for this topic and calming it down somewhat , what vaccine would be better to get Gardisil or Cervarix?

Much of the modern anti-vaccine sentiment stems from the controversy and subsequent fear-mongering over the preservative thimerosal (which contains mercury) in the 1990s. While the CDC and FDA still maintain that there is little danger in thimerosal - including NO link to autism - they asked vaccine mfgrs to voluntarily stop using it in 1999. Then in 2001, it was removed from any vaccine targeted to children under age 6, except for some flu vaccines.

FWIW, autism rates continued to rise even after the removal of thimerosal from vaccines, giving further evidence of a lack of any causal link.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html

https://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

https://www.epa.gov/mercury/thimerosal-vaccines

http://www.immunize.org/thimerosal/

Once again, everyone has to realize that ANY substance has the potential to trigger a hyper-allergic reaction in a VERY small percentage of the population.

Also, FWIW, I understand the separate controversy over the [lack of] efficacy of the flu vaccines. Flu vaccines are by their very nature designed for last year's strains, and cannot accurately predict what's going to evolve this year. I am less interested in those who object to what amounts to an annual experiment, than I am in those who renew baseless objections to vaccines that have been proven over decades.

@DocV said

DrZ i give up

whatever i say is not right, i could send you personal letters from ppl who are friends of mine and you still would have something to say against it

While it's tragic than anyone suffers the loss of someone so young, letters from such people do not override broader information that is not born out of grief. I am persuaded by cold, hard facts and the logical conclusions that can be drawn from them, not letters from "friends of mine".

I'm afraid what you said here did need to be challenged -

...Plus, here in Germany many girls even died from that injection cause it caused many problems ...

You stated the injection was the cause of death. But the articles you provided did not say that at all. I assume you have read them yourself, so you seem to have reached conclusions of your own that are not supported by the known facts.

I think you perhaps should have said that there have been a few unexplained deaths, and the vaccine has been suspected but there has been no definite causal link established. That kind of statement wouldn't have been questioned as much.

just dont ever dare yourself again telling me i am "abusing" a word

just cause you are a mod doesnt mean that you are always right and thats what you want to push through at the moment

I was perfectly civil when I said the articles didn't support your use of the word "many". This is a discussion for reasonable adults, so can we avoid that kind of petty bickering.

@cj1999 if you took the time to read my first post on Bridgett, I wished her well unless I am remembering wrong. As far as your penchant for silencing views you don't agree with, there was a group back in the early 1930's to mid 1940's you would see eye to eye with. Sieg Heil.

I know some of you know the vaccine for what it is and what it is not, but for those if you who denounce me for suggesting that blame be placed on the act, or the parts involved in the act, and not some emotional response form somebody who is too near to it. I hope your kids never sleep with someone who has AIDS because they will soon see that the magic bullet is *really* specific as to what it may defend against.

So, if that happens what are you going to day then? Gee I wish I got the HIV shot too? Oh wait, there isn't one. I guess than you may have to lament the act or the players, and not the lack of immunisation. Of course even worse is when someone is naive enough to think they are "covered" because they for the h?v shot because everybody tells them it protects them and they can have sex as haphazardly as they like and never get hpv.

I wish no harm, badness, or sadness on anybody. More than I can say for a lot of you. In fact my words are very contrary to wishing badness on anybody. I am suggesting that people consider acts that put them at risk, regardless of their "protection", and I will stand behind those words.

@cj1999 if you took the time to read my firs post on Bridgett, I wished her well unless I am remembering wrong. As far as your penchant for silencing views you don't agree with, there was a group back in the early 1930's to mid 1940's you would see eye to eye with. Sieg Heil.

Of course even worse is when someone is naive enough to think they are "covered" because they for the h?v shot because everybody tells them it protects them and they can have sex as haphazardly as they like and never get hpv.

@reggind I read it, and what you said, and what I quoted, was mean and heartless. It wasn’t ‘keeping it real’ or ‘just being honest’, it was being an asshole. And yes, I frequently apppeal to moderators to erase and remove any views I don’t agree with. We’re all in cahoots to keep the ‘truth’ hidden from everyone!

And do you REALLY believe that access to a vaccine, like access to birth control, or abortion causes people (women) to just fuck anything that moves, because medicine will ‘cure’ their mistakes? Are you being paid by the religious right for that archaic view? Let’s stop all sex education, because then every child/girl will remain a virgin!!

@cj1999 I did fuck up, and I will apologize to you, it was another person, @matt83 who was advocating censorship of views that he was not in agreement with. So I am sorry I got you confused with him.

As far as me being from the religious right, hardly. As far as my not wanting to get a disease, definitely. As far as people exercising caution around sex, definitely. If you don't think that is a good idea, I would make sure you tell every person you sleep with that you don't think exercising caution when having sex with strangers is a good idea. IMHO not exercising caution is just ignorant and I am hard pressed to believe that anybody except perhaps somebody who has a disease and wants to get laid would possibly be opposed to it.

I am also totally at a loss as to why suggesting that instead of lamenting that one was not vaccinated after the fact they did not lament the real cause. Given the vaccine may not have even been effective against that strain. There was no malice or mean intent or name calling. Much unlike what I am hearing from several people here.

So are you really avocating getting the HPV vaccine and than throwing caution to the wind? You disagree with me, What is your proposed protocol? What would you suggest your kids do?

Please note that I am not saying don't do anything dangerous. I do dangerous things all the time. What I am saying is know the risks and mitigate them. What do you say?