Transgender play.

Ask if they can write their name in the snow while peeing. 😎

This certainly isn't the last word in gender testing.

Well it is not easy but yeah. I can do it but my writing is not very good because I have to move a lot more of my body around than just wave a penis about!

It's rather like dispensing ink from a bottle instead of a pen. The delivery isn't quite as neat. Perhaps some practice on a sandy beach in the summer will help. 😁 😁 😁

On the main point, I might as well add my view. As some have said, it doesn't matter whether there is a penis if the relationship is a platonic friendship. If it heads in the direction of something else then there needs to be am honest discussion of the facts on both sides. If the man is straight, and therefore has ZERO sexual interest in penises, then it obliges the transgender woman to disclose the essential facts sooner rather than later. She cannot assume that the straight man will accept that she actually has a penis. He reasonably expects female genitals, and she cannot reasonably expect anything but a negative reaction - and rejection - if it later turns out she hasn't been honest when she should have taken the chance earlier. This honest disclosure matters.

Obviously that scenario isn't the only one that could happen. For men who have more of a 'flexible' sexuality, there might be some possibility that a romantic relationship would actually work. However, it needs to be understood that straight men are not flexible in that way. To think they probably wouldn't care, or could be persuaded, is completely wrong and could backfire massively. Not recommended.

However, it needs to be understood that straight men are not flexible in that way.

OK. Now to another hypothetical. What if we are talking about a post-op transgender person, complete with (surgically altered) female genitals. At what point is it recommended to make the revelation?

Or is it even relevant given the complete transformation into a functioning female body? Perhaps in the case of a possible marriage it would be, due to no possibility of any future progeny. But otherwise?

As a personal opinion, I would not be able to understand what the possible objection might be if you can't tell the physical difference. On the other hand, I am certain that some men wouldn't be able to handle the situation.

The OP asked for thoughts or experiences. I have no experience, but I can offer my thoughts. Again, the OP said he had a chance to play with three post-op individuals, and suggested that modern surgery makes it difficult to tell what had been there, (and he KNEW in advance.) The discussion in some earlier posts seemed to revolve around a man being shocked to find a penis where there should have been a vagina. To me, that suggests two different contexts. If people go to a club, where they expect to meet someone, and are sure they will get laid that same night, then there had better be full disclosure on the part of a pre-op before things get very far. I seem to recall a case where a man beat the other person to death when he was surprised to find the "wrong" genitals. (In San Diego, CA, I think)

The other context would be a meeting with no expectation that sex is on the immediate horizon. In that situation, I don't see what would be gained by making an announcement about looking female but still having a penis. I would think that two individuals could explore all possibilities, from friendship, up to and including a possible sexual element. When matters progress, then the specifics could be laid out clearly. By then, both individuals would be more comfortable with each other and could decide whether there is enough chemistry to work through the physical implications.

I think I just took two paragraphs to say what others have said more eloquently 😄 . Let me use myself as an example. If I met, and liked, an attractive woman, and she informed me that she had male genitalia, I would be intrigued enough to keep the friendship going. If we tried a sexual encounter, I would have some very mixed emotions. I am straight, but she wouldn't be another man, She would be a woman with a penis. Depending on the woman, that might be an interesting enough experience to warrant whatever form of sexual activity seemed to fit. Would I feel betrayed or cheated somehow that she didn't tell me earlier? I doubt it. A person is much more than what is between their legs.

I may have to change my status from "Straight" to Heteroflexible", but then I have always thought that we are all on a spectrum............

@agracier said

OK. Now to another hypothetical. What if we are talking about a post-op transgender person, complete with (surgically altered) female genitals. At what point is it recommended to make the revelation?

Again this is about honesty and disclosure of important facts. It would certainly matter that there was disclosure before there was any likelihood of physical involvement. Preferably, it would be disclosed when feelings were starting to develop. This would be a hell of a thing to conceal, and when the truth emerged (as it most likely would sooner or later), there would be consequences and possibly serious ones. The kind of violent outcome @ibrox mentioned was exactly what I was thinking of.

Or is it even relevant given the complete transformation into a functioning female body? Perhaps in the case of a possible marriage it would be, due to no possibility of any future progeny. But otherwise?

As a personal opinion, I would not be able to understand what the possible objection might be if you can't tell the physical difference. On the other hand, I am certain that some men wouldn't be able to handle the situation.

Of course it's relevant, and the ability to reproduce is far from being the only consideration.

When I became involved with my wife, and girlfriends before her, I built up mental pictures and narratives of their lives and how they developed into the people they had become, from girls into women. I wouldn't have been too impressed to discover I had been involved with someone who had allowed me to develop a dishonest, false view in a state of blissful ignorance. Nobody should be allowed to wrongly believe that their partner grew up as a girl when they were actually a boy and experienced some life as a man. You can look at it any way you like, but there would be no getting away from it being a serious deception.

I'm speaking as a straight male, and as I've said before, by definition I am not flexible about my sexuality. That is what shapes my views on this. I believe the ideas you are describing require some degree of sexual flexibility.

As a pre op transgender person myself, I have always been completely honest with people right from the start.

If a man has ever asked to buy me a drink, or ask me out for a date, I have always said early into the conversation, do you know that I am a transgender person.? Please feel free to ask me any questions that you might want to know, and I will try to answer them for you as honestly and as openly as I possibly can.

I personally believe that is only fair.

Most people I have ever met have always thanked me for my honesty. Many have said, sorry I didn't realise, many have said, I did wonder, but it really doesn't matter, and many have said, I really would never have guessed. However, they have all thanked me for being honest with them right from the start, and virtually all of them have been very inquisitive and asked me many questions, which I have always tried to answer honestly.

There have been a couple of occasions where, I have been subjected to abuse and insults, but they are very few and far between, and it is something that as a trans person you get used to, and just have to accept. Part of being trans involves developing a very thick skin and having to put up with certain things.

But generally most people are very polite and, many really are not too bothered, as they are obviously attracted to you in the first place, to approach you and start a conversation with you.

I am fascinated by pre-op trans women. I must admit I have had my share of fantasies about being with a woman of that nature. However, I am swimming up stream sexually because I want to be the passive (bottom) participant in the relationship whereas the trans usually takes that role. This all started because I am a lifelong anal erotic which led to watching strapon porn then I ran across "tranny" porn and now I am what one one call an admirer.

I am a woman of trans experience and three and a half week post op. If I am clearly looking for a sexual encounter, or date, I will absolutely let the other person know my situation, beforehand, in a craigslist add or in a bar. Including body parts.

On social media I identify myself as a woman of trans experience. No need to start talking about body parts. I am not asking how your genitals are; if your vagina smells or if your penis hangs to the left. If someone politely asks, I answer.

If I am going out in public, not dating or looking for any sexual whatever, shopping for groceries or just minding my own business, I will not at all discuss my personal being. I am a woman, legally, medically and physically... Yes I still have masculine facial features and not wearing make-up all (most) the time.

No I am not tricking males either, I am just living my own life. Some woman have vagina's, some have penises. Some man have penises, some have vagina's. So is life. And then there are many intersex conditions... not going any further...

Erin.

If I can not trust you for the way you present yourself how can I trust anything you say?? just a question

Aside from the body parts which transgender people say does not matter, how has being trans changed any aspect of your life?

I assume you still get up in the morning, go to work, see friends, go food shopping, vacuum the house, wash the car, pay the mortgage, taxes and utility bills, watch TV, cook dinner, go on vacation and a multitude of other things that other people do.

You may have had a lot of plastic surgery and body mods, but specifically, what has actually changed in your life ???

Speaking for myself...

How has my transition changed my life? In one word happiness.

I understand that for cisgender male and female it might be difficult to understand why one would transition and, when possible, even change their penis into a vulva or have a penis created. After all that's your "happy" pleasure private part. Well simple... I wasn't happy with my penis. Yes... I needed my penis to have an orgasm, and have 4 children, but other than that I didn't like the way it looks on me.

And I don't just mean the looks. It didn't belong their in my feelings. I was afraid of my penis in childhood. I always thought it will "fall off" or something after having sex. I had no sexual education and I was raised very strict reformed Christian. (Which i am not, after I reached my 16th year, I was allowed by my parents to step out)

I did have female behaviour and expressions, until being bullied at a young age, locked it up.

When I started to transition I thought the effect of hormones and blockers will be enough to soften the mental discomfort, but as my body progressed in femininity, the "partly disabled" penis became an even bigger issue. Especially in the shower and mirror.

Now after surgery I have zero discomfort with my body, glad I no longer have this penis and equally happy to have a vulva.

Next to the physical change (that no one sees on the outside), it clearly affect my happiness and that shows in my expression and self well being. (Looking for a different word, but my lack of English is not helping)

On social life my relationship with my wife and children has progressed significantly. Years ago my wife and I where in court to get divorced, but we ended the procedure as the law changed, and decided to stay legally separated.

Now my wife and I are best friends, after I started to transition. We are getting back together again and my wife stayed with me the entire time during my surgery, bedside in my hospital room, even though i rented a hotel room, she choose to be with and near me. She also helped me during recovery.

I think she noticed my behavior and happiness after no longer being a terrible male.

I do understand that I am a woman of trans experience and I know where I came from, I will never be as "complete" as a cisgender woman, but I do feel complete and happy.

Also for the record, I paid for my transition surgery myself, so "taxpayers can't say they paid for me".

Thx for asking and reading my honest reply.

I am open and out, obviously, and always telling the truth.

Hugs, Erin.

PS.

I like to add that most of the time people only talk about transgender woman, not so much trans man. That's most likely because it's nearly impossible to remove certain masculine features through hormones and surgery, for example the bones and body height.

This is true for trans woman who transition after puberty and later in life. I started in 2015. Now those who start before puberty, or who are on puberty blockers, will have a much better results and are most likely not going to be recognized as trans.

Trans man on the other hand will change quickly into the masculine features that after 6 to 8 months that will make them not recognize as ever been born as female. Unfortunately for the trans man, surgery is a much more complicated and expensive option.

Our bodies start out the same, in the first 7 weeks in the mothers womb we are all female. That's why it's easier to transition from male to female genitals

Thank you for your answer.

One correction:

Our bodies start out the same, in the first 7 weeks in the mothers womb we are all female. That's why it's easier to transition from male to female genitals

The bodies do not start out all female.

From the time of inception the girls are always XX and the boys are always XY.

They start out undifferentiated and just LOOK the same.

Most males are 46XY, most females are 46XX

Most, but not all. In a few births per 1000 some are born with a single sex chromosome. (45X or 45Y)

Intersex conditions happens in 1 out of 2000 births, 1 out of 20000 the gender can not be determined by looking at the genitals .

My reference to us starting out as female was intended to illustrate the presence of a vagina. The visible line on the man's scrotum is where the vagina opening fused, after the release of an androgen initiates the "beginning" if the male genitals.

I'm at work now, might come back to add.

Erin.

Most, but not all. In a few births per 1000 some are born with a single sex chromosome. (45X or 45Y)

Intersex conditions happens in 1 out of 2000 births, 1 out of 20000 the gender can not be determined by looking at the genitals .

I know everyone wants to be perfect in today's society and it might be politically incorrect to say this, but those are birth defects.

APPEARING female is due to being undifferentiated, NOT actually being female.

I would like to meet a pretty and passable pre op fully functional for a full bottom & top, oral & anal experience with them,

As a human who is transitioning MTF, I don't think it's really anyone's business to know what is between my legs until I feel like it's time to tell them. I am pretty open about my transition, but I don't think it's their right to know. I think safety is a huge concern, and disclosing that information if you don't feel safe isn't a good idea.

I think this article is pretty good at summing it up:

https://medium.com/@Phaylen/when-to-disclose-your-trans-status-to-a-potential-romantic-partner-c934941243bc

I would like to experience an interaction with a transgender woman. Ideally one that kept the male parts below, but had a procedure down on her chest. We could please each other through masturbation and anally.

Getting back on track….

“I wonder whether any of the other members of this site have ever played with post-op transgender people”

I did not “play” with another post-op transgender person but had lunch with her (since she has girl parts, I call him her). She was a friend of a colleague that went to lunch with us every Wednesday. She reminded me of an old lady, that's about it.

Oh this topic always stirs up heated debate.

As a trans woman myself(pre op for 256 more days) I have strong feelings about this But I feel like it boils down to communication. I don’t think what’s between someones legs needs to be the first thing but it certainly should be talked about early on. I would say even before a first date.

I understand having a preference for certain genitalia but there are equally others who look past that and find attraction based on personality over physical attributes.

I may have a change of opinion after my surgery but we will find out.

Liana

Very interesting read…as I grow in knowledge I accept who I am more.

To the OP question no I have not had the opportunity to “play” with a post-op trans woman. Would I like to? Yes indeed.

At my age and family dynamic I can’t fully transition, well at least right now.

I love warm friendly human beings…I find more of them in the trans community than anywhere else. One day I just want to find a “life partner” to enjoy life with openly and honestly. You be you…I’ll be me.

In general everbody can disapoint somebody or can be disapointed by somebody. To find out who is the other person and also to let the other person know who I am is very important if a real relationship is wanted. If sexual activity is the only or most important aim then it is a bit different. In any way before sexual activity is happening the other person should know about specific differences which are dealing with sexual activities. Specific differences could be a mismatch between the appearance (female or male) and the body (genital area), physical disability (if it concerns sexual activities) or asexuality for example. I believe most of the people don‘t want to hurt others and also don‘t want to be hurt by others. Doesn‘t matter if they are male, female, something in between, or transgender and it also doesn‘t matter if they are straight, queer, bisexuel, asexuel or heterofexible. To be honest and respectful is necessary if two human beings are interested in a relationship.

There is so much to say about the ideas and opinions I have read in this post. Foremost I would say, unless you are transgender or a supporter and have been impacted by a transgender person than I do not think that you have the right to try to dictate when and how a transgender person outs themselves. These things gs take trust and getting to know a person. I have been attacking,laughed at and excluded from events and so have my children all because I am transgender. It is complicated and we do not want to lead someone on yet we need to feel safe just as if you suffer from mental illness and want to wait for the right time to disclose. These are our decision to make for our safety.

Hallo The Goddess Marie,

I agree with you it is an issue of safety and personal right. Only persons who are very close to me know my background and of course the doctors know that if it‘s necessary to know for the examination or the medical treatment. I don‘t see why I should inform an other man if I‘m drinking a beer with him in a pub. If he is interested to have sex with me I would tell him about my personal topic before sexual activity happens if I‘m also interested in having sex with him. Maybe it‘s a bit easier for me because I would be the passive partner in a sexual relationship.

As a bisexual woman I think I’m open to it though have never experienced it. Some earlier comments are quite black & white but I don’t think it’s a simple or easy scenario, meeting someone that is, regardless of gender. Openness and communication is always important but I get that it’s tricky when first meeting someone.

I have read this thread again. The questioner explains the topic of his question in detail. His text does not contain any judgment of transgender people. After the first two answers, which do not contain any moral judgment, a discussion begins with comments, some of which contain moral judgments about transgender people and their behavior when looking for partners or sex partners. In some comments, authors prescribe how transgender people should behave. What they should do and what they should not do.

There are also comments that pass judgment on the identity of transgender people. The tone in this discussion is sometimes very harsh. Simply as a human being, I find the discussion, which has developed from a harmless question and a perhaps not quite everyday topic, partly frightening and shows that transgender people have to examine very carefully who they can trust and give some of the most personal information about themselves. Some comments give the impression that transgender people need to limit their personal rights to avoid disappointing someone before even engaging in conversations that are more intimate than small talk. In a relationship between two people, mutual respect and respect for fundamental personal rights is paramount. For both of them.

I assume that respect is very important to the majority of people and that they behave respectfully towards other people and wish to be treated respectfully by other people. This majority consists of many different people with different characteristics. This majority includes people who are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual or transgender, for example.

There are also people who practice less respectful or even disrespectful behavior towards other people. These include people who are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual or transgender, for example. Unfortunately, not everyone treats other people with respect. The imaginary line between disrespectful and respectful behavior runs independently of all other characteristics of a person, such as their sexual orientation or gender identity.

No one has directly claimed that transgender people are more disrespectful than "normal" people, but the "rules of behavior" that are more or less directly formulated in individual comments imply that transgender people need to be told what is right and what is wrong behavior when getting to know other people.

I'm surprised that nobody seems to have thought about how great the risk is for transgender people when they are looking for a partner. Be it for a couple or just for sex. Several comments give the impression that transgender people would not shy away from not disclosing to a potential partner in order to have sex with someone or have a romantic relationship.

If you imagine that you are a transgender person and want to be in a relationship and are looking for a partner, what would be your fears? I think it's obvious to everyone that you don't want to be hurt. Neither emotionally nor physically. So you have to somehow figure out what kind of person you are communicating with on social media or meeting in your real life. How does he or she feel about transgender people. Does he or she despise transgender people? What is his or her perception of transgender people? Sentences such as "He was a woman!" or "She was a man!" say quite a lot about the idea that someone has developed about transgender people, and the person doesn't even have to have a dislike or hatred of transgender people. The worst that can happen is an aggressive reaction, which in extreme cases can be physical violence or hurtful and humiliating words. There is also a risk that your most personal secret will be shared or spread on social media

SwitchableSusie wrote (commend No. 39):

Aside from the body parts which transgender people say does not matter, how has being trans changed any aspect of your life?

I assume you still get up in the morning, go to work, see friends, go food shopping, vacuum the house, wash the car, pay the mortgage, taxes and utility bills, watch TV, cook dinner, go on vacation and a multitude of other things that other people do.

You may have had a lot of plastic surgery and body mods, but specifically, what has actually changed in your life ???

Comment on the first paragraph: It is not true that transgender people generally believe that sexual organs are unimportant. Why do many transgender people undergo operations to have their female genital organs removed, for example, in order to get a penis and testicles? Or the other way around? The male genitals are removed and a vagina and vulva are built. There are transgender people who have a different point of view and for whom it is okay if they only undergo part of the gender reassignment surgery or perhaps even none at all. For me personally, it is very important not only not to have female sex organs, but also to have a penis and testicles like any other man. Both the options for undergoing gender reassignment surgery and the needs can be very different.

Note on the remaining paragraphs:

Since gender reassignment surgery, I feel liberated. I have developed a great sense of satisfaction after the operation. I am reconciled with my body because, since the gender reassignment surgery, it matches my soul, or more precisely, my identity. This is the best thing that has happened to me in my life and I am lucky to live in a country where this is possible and I am also legally a man. This has had a huge impact on my everyday life because I now feel comfortable around other people. I no longer have an "inner" and an "outer" life, because both lives have grown together and now form a whole. Before the operation, I was very depressed and desperate. Then I discovered that transgender people exist and that there are ways to live with it. It was clear to me from the start that I wanted to have full gender reassignment surgery. If I hadn't had this operation and hormone therapy, I would either be dead or permanently in a psychiatric ward.

Every transgender person has to find the right path for themselves. Some don't need or want surgery or only have partial surgery.

What has changed in my life since I started living as a man in public? I've started living and have made up for a lot of things I missed out on. My youth didn't exist. I made up for it as a young adult.

I have not but would love to. I always like to talk with partners about our journeys.