Soap - After effect/ Irritation

We normally do not use soap in enemas.

Recently we tried some soap in the water. The enema had the usual results immediately, but also, some 4 hours later or so, the patient had to run to the loo to expel some more.

Is this common experience with soap in enemas?

Several members mention that after a soapy enema they have a rinse, to get rid of soap remnants.

I wonder - if one takes a soapy enema and no rinse, what happens? Does one get laxative after-effects long after the enema has been expelled?

I used to take very strong soapy enemas of 1.5 liters. They were strong enough to cause irresistable straining and nausea. After expulsion, the feeling would subside. about 18 hrs. later, I would have a cramp, followed by a laxative feeling in my rectum. the movement was large, well-formed and of good consistency. This type of movement was not usual for me, so I figure that stool pushed the soap off the intestinal wall, concentrating it as it went. I really enjoyed this effect.

Since those days, about 30 years ago I haven't felt that effect, so usually I rinse after soapy enemas.

I notice some lingering irritation after soap enemas. The amount depends on soap type and concentration. Currently my most common "measured" enema is a capful of Bronners in 2-2.5 quarts of water, and if I don't rinse I feel the large intestine "working" much more than usual afterwards. I have enough extra going on (and an uncooperative enough bowel) to where I can't tie it to a later "normal" bowel movement, but the feeling is a little uncomfortable. I'm not sure how concentrated your enemas are or what soap you use. I imagine a more concentrated enema would have more of an effect - perhaps I should try it sometime as the weaker soap solutions still take a while to make their way out.

I recently experimented with using baby shampoo and that didn't seem to have as many after effects, so that could be a route if you don't want to do a rinse. I'm not completely sure about concentration - I don't think it was the "recommended" 1-2 Tablespoons/15-30mL per liter/quart that I have seen.

I generally do use a rinse enema afterwards. I don't know if it's all placebo or not but it does seem to help things settle down.

If I'm doing my regular series of 3, I'll do 2 soaps and a rinse, all 2qts. I've been using baby shampoo for the last couple of years and really enjoy it. I put 2 Tblsp of shampoo and about the same of baking soda to 2qts. Makes a very relaxing, soothing, cleansing enema. If I'm doing a detox, the 3rd is 1 qt of coffee held for 30 mins.

In an enema, thoroughness is critical

I find that soap (Careful! Not chemical detergent!) strikes the best balance between effective clean out and limiting side effects.

I use soap in everything except a pre-packaged enema like a Fleet

I would have liked to ask this question to nurses in hospitals years ago when they gave "soapsuds" enemas to prep their patients for surgeries. Seems like they may have used a stronger soap mixture in those days. Did they follow with a rinse? From what I read, that was doubtful.

My home health nurse (I've written about Angie several times here) used the small packet of liquid Castile soap that came with the disposable enema bag. I think the bag held close to two quarts. I was pretty bound up inside. The first enema she gave me wasn't too pleasant, but it really worked. I remember being helped out of bed and having several trips to the bathroom. I thought I was finished at least twice, but then I had to go again. So I know what that's like.

If I'm that plugged up and feeling that I need a Castile enema, I'll wait at least a couple of hours before leaving the house or hosting a party! Lol!!

Vicki V -

I received my first enema at a NYC hospital at about (7) years of age. There was NO rinse enema that followed. Not absolutely sure that was S.O.P., but I remember it as if it was yesterday.

First wife was an RN, who trained at a 3 year diploma hospital in Cincinnati and graduated in 1965. All SSE's were one quart with a packet of castile soap included in the "enema tray" from central supply. The tray contained a 2 liter stainless steel irrigator, amber latex tubing, red rubber rectal tube and the packet of soap. Rinse enemas were never given, as the time demands were many. She would sometimes go on duty at 7 am and have to give 5,or 6 SSE's at once, for people going to surgery that morning. Patients going to X-Ray for I.V.P.'s, or those who had not had a BM in 3 days also got an SSE.

I find that soap (Careful! Not chemical detergent!) strikes the best balance between effective clean out and limiting side effects.

I use soap in everything except a pre-packaged enema like a Fleet

I started off using just plain water because I was concerned about "messing things up" in my gut (which is as messed up as I want it to be) and when I was reading stuff in journals there seemed to be a definite bias against soap (and enemas in general).

Since then I too have started to use soap almost all the time. It just works better in my gut, and none of the dire warnings about chemical colitis or enema dependence have come true. My completely unscientific guess is that the mucosal damage is very temporary and doesn't cause any lasting issues, and in general it seems that there is more documented problems with the Fleet type phosphate enemas than a properly made soapsuds enema.

I do rinse most of the time, but I probably should do some trials to see how much of a difference it really makes.

I don't get a laxative effect later that day, but then again I can down a double dose of Mirilax and my gut will shrug it off.

Gallonist,

Just based on 50+ years of self-given enema experience, I've just never felt the urge to rinse ever, even after soap, saline, glycerine, lavender, peppermint or any other preparation. My belly, including this morning after 2 enemas yesterday of Bronner's peppermint soap (first peppermint ever) feels wonderful.

However, all this rinsing discussion does bring up an interesting concept. My anus/sphincter is extremely sensitive to irritation even after sometimes one benign enema of salt and/or mild Castile soap, each at 1sp/quart. My belly on the other hand could easily take multiple enemas a day and be happy, like this morning. I'm beginning to wonder if anything but pure saline 1 tsp/quart is obviously irritating not my belly but maybe my sphincter. Maybe I should do an intentional trial of pure water or saline rinse of my last enema of the day to see if the rinse might calm down my sphincter. Interesting plan. Just from tactile (hand) inspection, as I can't see it, I'm afraid I may have a small (few mm) right posterior lateral hemorrhoid that my favorite surgeon may be fixing soon. That may solve the whole problem.

As far as retention and absorption and post-enema urination, I just intensely enjoy the feelings of retention of any type of enema, from about 2-5 quarts. My usual is normal saline plus Castile soap. I have a salt meter for my pool, but haven't officially tested my enema water, which now that think of it is a good idea. So on a normal enema, the salt is roughly isotonic plus some additional Sodium from the Castile soap. Many soaps are Sodium or other anions ionically bonded to a large soap cation, but I haven't read the Castile content yet. As a result, my enema solutions are probably normal to slightly hypertonic and don't engender a great deal of water absorption across the colonic wall. Thus, I don't experience an excessive amount of post-enema urination accountable from the enema.. Another experiment I'll do is just a pure water enema held a long time (3-4 q held 30-60 min) to see what happens to my hydration status.

I wrote this as a reply to Gallonist after his reply to me about his daily gallon practice, but I don't see his reply now. I'll post it here and look for his reply, as he's the one who asked me about enema absorption and hydration and urination. If the mods see two copies of this, just delete the one not for Gallonist.

More later,

Eric

Dick

If I use soap I always rinse. I have done it once and taken a break before rinsing and I could feel it in me.

If I use soap, I use a light mix of either castile or J&J baby wash. Just enough to give a bit of urge and cleansing but not so much as to have strong cramps or forceful evacuation. Therefore I have never had the need to rinse and rarely have the delayed reaction some here have described. If I rinse, it is usually just because I want another enema rather than any need to do it.

Cheryl7717,

You're just like the rest of us enema lovers. You just want an excuse for another enema! (Like me!)

Eric ?

I always take a plain water rinse enema after my first enema of Ivory soap. I think it goes back to my childhood. After every soapy enema my mom always syringed me again with plain water to rinse out the soapsuds. Because of that, I carried the practice on to this day.

Four hours is a long time but not impossible.

Usually 2-3 is more likely.

Growing up, Sis and I got enemas twice weekly, normally with a very strong Ivory soap solution, administered at 105 F. We were slowly increased from 10 minutes to 30 minutes holding time. When we were able to hold a given volume for 30 minutes over several weeks, Grandma then increased our volume by one pint, and the holding time cycle started over. Wednesday evenings we got one SSE and a rinse, Saturday mornings we got SSE's til clear, followed by two rinses. This never varied. When we started doing each other while home alone (Yes, after puberty, Sis wanted enemas, so we gave to each other.) Sometimes we rinsed, sometimes not; when we didn't rinse, neither of us recall any after effects. We actually came to enjoy the cramps from Gram's enemas, so we always made ours very strong. She placed a bath bar of Ivory in a large glass jar, and filled the jar with hot water, then left it for a week or two so the soap melted into a viscous solution. She used a tablespoon per qt in our enemas, which turned the water white as milk. The cramps started 5-6 minutes into the holding time, and sometimes became gut-wrenching. Other than leaving us with burning anuses after releasing, we noticed no other after effects from our shared SSE's sans rinse.

For an excellent soapy clean-out, I have one word: OCTAGON

Susie, never heard of it (for an enema). Isn't it clothing/laundry soap?:

Give us some Octagon rules and reasoning. Solid/crystals, liquid, concentration (start at low end for my anal health please like 1 tsp per quart of liquid Castile soap).

Thanks,

Looking forward to using it ASAP.

Eric

I suppose that the concentration of the soap, or anything, in an enema is just as important as what kind of soap it is. I remember back as a little girl my sister and I played with the enema bulb in the bathtub leading to the first enemas we gave to each other as well as many self-given enemas over the years. The enemas in the bathtub were with whatever soap happened to be dissolved in the bathwater. Sometimes even bubble bath soap. I do not recall any bad effects from any of them. I guess whatever soap was dissolved in six inches of water in a bathtub is such a low concentration that it doesn't matter what kind of soap it is.

Octagon is a modern enzymatic chemical detergent.

Not at all the same as soap

Far more likely to be toxic.

I'll stick to Ivory, and just use a strong solution.

Octagon Soap is made of lye, which is an alternative name for sodium hydroxide, caustic soda or potassium hydroxide. The chemical compound of lye is NaOH, and it is extracted from the ashes of logs of oak and bushes that grow fruit.

Octagon Soap was made by the Colgate-Palmolive Company in the early 1900s, but it was discontinued because of decreased demand. Some bars of Octagon Soap are still available today, and the soap is sought after because of its basic ingredients, powerful cleaning capability and nostalgic value. Amazon is selling it for $34.00 per 7oz bar

Lye can be dangerous because of its caustic qualities. It can be poisonous and may corrode metals, paint and even skin. However, lye soap, like Octagon Soap, is not dangerous because it has been neutralized. Lye is a base, and when it is used to make soap, it is mixed with an acid.

Octagon Soap was originally marketed as laundry soap and used by shaving flakes of it into a wash basin, in which clothes were then soaked and scrubbed against a washboard. It was also used as a hand soap, acne soap, clothing stain remover, and itchy rash or bug-bite remedy. The soap also has various household uses, such as cleaning stoves, bathtubs and tile.

NO ENZYMES

Octagon is a modern enzymatic chemical detergent.

Not at all the same as soap

Far more likely to be toxic.

I'll stick to Ivory, and just use a strong solution.

NO LisaK. Octagon is NOT detergent.

Lye is used to MAKE soap INCLUDING IVORY, so is fat.

Neither remains after the saponification reaction takes place.

Funny, I had totally forgotten about Octagon Soap! I'm betting a strong solution of it as an enema would twist your colon into a pretzel! LOL!

NO LisaK. Octagon is NOT detergent.

Classical Octagon is a soap, but I'm pretty sure that I remember seeing Octagon detergent, though not recently. Perhaps it was only sold in certain areas, but I think it had a bottle that looked a bit like a modern take on a Greek column, with plain cylinders on the top and a fluted section that bowed in in the middle.

I did read a nursing text from the '20s that noted in the enema section that "laundry soap is more effective in moving the bowels than white soap" (Goodnow, Minnie. First Year Nursing. 1921). I have been too concerned about chemical colitis to try it up to now, but it seems to be as safe as any soap when used sensibly.

FWIW Palmolive also used to be a bar soap, and most lye nowadays is a byproduct of chlorine production. I guess if someone is concerned they can take a sample of the soap, dissolve it in water and titrate to see how alkaline it really is, but commercial soaps shouldn't be a big issue. however I don't think I'd use homemade soap without testing it out. Isn't the intestinal environment slightly basic anyway?

I'm to the opinion, an hour after your enema you still feel the need to "go", the soap or volume of your enema was not enough and the enema was not effective. Otherwise a SSE should not have any effects or irritation. In other words it should produce enough irritation to always come out, on its own.

For some reason after a large sse I get the runs, unless I rinse the colon afterwards.

After the rinse I do a yogurt enema as large as possible, typically 3qts.

Works for me!

Peace

I stick to Ivory Bar Soap. I allow it to sit in water when not in use

Produces a mild, with emphasis on mild irritation.

Don't think it can do any long term harm The body tolerates and recovers from mild irritation pretty well.

The irritation is actually less than bisacodyl

I the past few years I have discovered Bronners Castile soaps. I will start off with a SSE but I do follow with 2 more enemas with just plain water. I use a tablespoon or so in a 3 quart enema. I will say that I have noticed some irritation throughout the day in my rectum which does create the feeling of needing to expel the last bits of the enemas. I have sat on the toilet and not expelled anything but that feeling of needing to go is still there for the remainder of the day.

I am not sure if the rinse enemas help to reduce the mild irritation I feel for the rest of the day but I like doing a series of three enemas and always have. My intuition tells me if all three were SSE, it would probably cause too much irritation for me.

I do not like strong soap mixtures. For example; the little castile soap packets say dissolve the packet in 1 quart of warm water. I use one packet to a 2 quart bag. I like J&J baby wash too, but just a small squirt. I do not like Ivory soap.

If I keep the mixture mild I have no problem with irritation or surprise urges later. If I feel I really need to be cleaned out and use a stronger mix then I need a plain water rinse after the cleansing enema.