False Medical Modesty

I just want to know what people's opinions on this are.

I went with my wife today to see the doctor, because I was concerned that I might have developed a hernia. The doctor didn't see me, her NP saw me instead. After talking with the NP for a while, I removed the clothing from the lower half of my body (except for my socks) so she could check me for a hernia. She looked at my pubic area while I was lying down and then again while I was standing. As she checked me, there was a discussion in the room between her, my wife, and myself about hernias that lasted several minutes, and we were all looking at my crotch.

Now, I freely admit to largely lacking much modesty or shame when it comes to my body (not that I'm much to look at, but my body is what it is, and I don't care enough about what other people think -- good or bad -- to stress about it). However, I can understand being reluctant to let strangers see you naked, and wanting to cover up. But, I don't understand what the point of being ashamed is after the stranger has already seen everything...

We talked for at least 5 or 10 minutes, and I was worried about having a hernia (still am) and wasn't even thinking about being naked any more. Finally, the NP said "Well you must be in a hurry to cover up so I will leave and let you get dressed." I didn't correct her, because I'm sure I was supposed to be dying of embarrassment at that point, even though I had nearly forgot that I was half naked. She then went out the door, so that anyone in the hallway would have seen me butt naked from the waist down, and closed it so that I could get dressed.

Would you be modest about covering yourself after everyone in the room had spent several minutes looking at, and even holding, your genitals? I mean, to me, that ship had sailed a long time ago. And why does she need to leave the room for me to get dressed? Is putting clothes on somehow more embarrassing than being naked? Especially considering that if she had remained in the room long enough for me to get dressed, she wouldn't have had to open the door, exposing me to passersby?

I have read quite a bit on the importance in the medical field of preserving people's modesty, which I can appreciate as a value (even if I don't value it for myself). It's just the more that I am exposed to it (pun intended), there seems to be no rhyme or reason about how the concept is applied.

Weird.

I think that the degree of modesty required will vary from patient to patient. I assume that if you looked uncomfortable, the exam and ensuing conversation may have developed differently.

She left the room because she was done and had to go see other patients and to write your chart. Believe you me I beat a hasty retreat too. I've got places to go and people to see. I don't know a single medical professional who is ill at ease with nudity.

I agree with Liquidsky. It's part of the job. One sees so much nudity in a day or week that if it affected us we would be unable to do our jobs. In my internal medicine practice some days I saw 30 patients. Didn't leave time for gawking or gasping. On to the next person.

Finally, the NP said "Well you must be in a hurry to cover up so I will leave and let you get dressed." .....She then went out the door, so that anyone in the hallway would have seen me butt naked from the waist down, and closed it so that I could get dressed.

Would you be modest about covering yourself after everyone in the room had spent several minutes looking at, and even holding, your genitals?....And why does she need to leave the room for me to get dressed? Is putting clothes on somehow more embarrassing than being naked? ... she wouldn't have had to open the door, exposing me to passersby?

you must be in a hurry to cover up - is a simple excuse for the NP to be moving on. Shifting the reason for her departure as benefiting the patient - you.

Would you be modest about covering yourself after everyone in the room had spent several minutes looking at - For me, no i would not cover up. For many others, yes they would. We're all different.

Is putting clothes on somehow more embarrassing than being naked? - She's just trying to give you the decency of privacy for a private act of dressing. A principle of maintaining consistent professionalism

she wouldn't have had to open the door, exposing me to passersby - it is assumed most people are mature enough, or shy enough, or have the decency, not to look into exam rooms in case someone is not fully clothed. If they don't experience issues with people peering into rooms, they won't think anything of swinging the door open. Their thought must be no one is paying attention

Look, it's as simple as this: You have to get dressed in order to leave the office and the NP has other patients to see, so they left you to get dressed.

It all started for me when I had a resection for colon cancer. Lots of medical professionals saw me nude, especially when I had to go for daily radiation treatments. That " broke the ice" for me and I just stripped from the waist down. Last year I had ultra sounds for an aortic aneurysm daily in the hospital, got my staples removed by a young lady. Then I had a malignant tumor removed from my bladder and get cystoscopies every 3 months. A young medical assistant swabs my glans penis, injects Xylocaine viscus in my urethra for the scoping and stays during the procedure. My dermatologist has me totally nude once a year for a full body check, with a female assistant present. I have lost all modesty after these things.

I once dated a lovely lady who was chief resident in internal medicine and quizzed her on seeing nude patients. She told me, "once you've seen one nude fanny, you've seen them all". I think it's run of the mill for all these people. An F.P. I called on told me he didn't care if he was looking into a vagina, or a sore throat; it's all the same to him. We are the ones who get squeamish about our nudity. Everyone I've ever had such intimate exams with looked bored; they do it all the time. It's just work for them. Now, I don't care anymore either.

I agree that the medical modesty comes from the patient side and that most, if not all, medical professionals take it in stride as part of their jobs. They can put any other personal feelings about it aside in their desire to help patients and take care of them. I agree that patients will have varying degrees of modesty and I would guess that medical professionals pick up on that and may adjust their own behavior and patient interactions accordingly. But for some patients who have a high degree of modesty, probably no matter how the care giver interacts will lesson those feelings for them.

I am not sure about the "false modesty" being attributed here. I think that providers do care to interact in a professional manner and I expect as much. Going for an exam will in all likelihood involve some degree of exposure and depending on what is needed may take a bit of time. I don't think that the provider would wish to have an extensive conversation with a patient undressed and exposed. I would find that to be just a bit unnecessary.

I had the strange experience of the doctor being so embarrassed after giving me a prostate check, that she could neither look at me nor talk to me for some minutes. What was that all about? I could have understood if I had got embarrased, but surely not her.

WTF? Are you sure that she was embarrassed? Hard to believe if she was a doctor out of training. Hmmm...

I can't believe she was embarrassed either. Maybe you thought you had some kind of scintillating effect on her, which I doubt.

For us, examining your genitals (or prostate) is as exciting as it is for your mother to squeeze fruit in the food store to make sure it is ripe.

My guess is that, as others have already said, she simply needed to move on to her next patient. Nothing more than that. But at the same time, I think a lot of medical professionals assume that most patients are overly modest, since that seems to be the world that we live in now. Therefore they probably treat to the lowest common denominator, meaning that if they treat all of their patients in a way that tries to preserve their modesty, they won't offend anyone.

I know what I saw, despite what everyone else says. I think it could have been an age thing, as she is over 30 years younger than me. But I only mentioned it to see if anyone else had the same experience.

OK. Usually I respond in some harsh, critical and in some mean spirited way when I believe the posting is BS. This time I am not going to go off on some heavy handed attack. Do I think Dr. Higgs' post about the doctor being embarrassed is BS? Not necessarily. You really do not know what thoughts might have been running through the mind of the provider. Maybe she actually (for reasons not known) was feeling a little embarrassed. Maybe she was just not quite used to completing a prostate exam. Maybe the poster misunderstood the body language etc.

Look at all the moderators monitoring my posts. I always wanted to be a cult hero but certainly not like this.

I had a DRE some years ago to supplement a mildly high PSA count.

It was done at my GP surgery by a mature female doctor who apologised for having to check my 'tail end' (her words).

Little did she know I am anal erotic and quite enjoyed my tail end check!

^^^^ They often apologize, not because they are embarrassed, but because they think the patient might be.

If she were really embarrassed what did she do which let you know she was embarrassed? I think you must be misinterpreting her behavior. Perhaps she was distracted by some other unrelated thing?

Other than being penetrated, I can certainly see how you guys enjoy your DRE --- ALL FIVE SECONDS OF IT --- NOT!

That's equivalent to a guy ejaculating upon vaginal entry--NOT SATISFYING AT ALL..

Seriously, look at a clock, wave your finger around for five seconds.

Unless you have something seriously wrong being examined 5 seconds is all it takes, and then you'll have imaging done to isolate and diagnose the problem.

Modesty for patients in medicine only became a concern as younger doctors came into practice. The gender mix in the medical profession changed also. When I was a kid, I never saw a female doctor although that doesn't mean that there weren't any. The doctors that I saw as a kid and into my 30s were from the generations of men who had been in the military and had not been raised with any expectations about male modesty in any environment including medicine. They didn't see the point of using gowns for male patients or not exposing a male patient entirely while they did not do that with female patients. They didn't see it as a double standard, it was just that there was no need to treat males any other way. As my dad said after I had a group sports physical when I was a teen, "when I went into the service, no one got to wear their underpants during their physicals". From his view, our sports physicals were nothing like his experiences simply because we got to keep our underpants on until the end of the exam line.

I haven't been to a younger doctor in years but the doctors that I have seen for physicals have been a mix of a few who use gowns for males and the bigger number who just have me strip to my underwear. I assume that the younger the doctor, the more likely to end up in a gown and maybe even with my underwear on underneath.

I assume that the younger the doctor, the more likely to end up in a gown and maybe even with my underwear on underneath.

This is probably just a coincidence, but starting about 11 years ago, I started going to doctors who were my age or younger. With the older doctors, I was rarely exposed any more than I absolutely had to be. I mean I would either drop my pants for the genital exam and pull them back up again quickly, or the doctor would just reach into my underwear and feel around. But I didn't used to put on a gown or strip or anything like that for an exam.

Since the age balance shifted and many of my doctors are younger than I am, I am naked or nearly naked by the end of the exam (Ok, yes I may be wearing a gown, but I'm tall and those gowns really don't cover anything important on me...)

Don't know if this is because I'm older and the examinations are more intense (regular DRE's) or a generation shift...

I have been following this thread for a few days and have decided to add my two cents into the mix. From a historical perspective there has always been a disparity between male and female modesty in healthcare, in favour of the female. Male modesty has also suffered as the general consensus or I should say fallacy was that males are less modest than females. This however is simply not the case and recently the concept of male modesty has been raised and is more culturally aware in the healthcare system. This however does not mean that all medical professionals have wholeheartedly embrace this concept.

Back to the original poster HumblePatient everyone has their own personal boundaries, beliefs etc with the concept of nudity, modesty etc in a clinical environment , so while you may feel comfortable about being exposed from the waist down other patients regardless of the sex may not be.

As already pointed out by Liquidsky, Rayme , medical professional get use to dealing with patient nudity and are more focus on on identifying or treating the problem. As jimmyt44 stated:

I once dated a lovely lady who was chief resident in internal medicine and quizzed her on seeing nude patients. She told me, "once you've seen one nude fanny, you've seen them all". I think it's run of the mill for all these people. An F.P. I called on told me he didn't care if he was looking into a vagina, or a sore throat; it's all the same to him. We are the ones who get squeamish about our nudity. Everyone I've ever had such intimate exams with looked bored; they do it all the time. It's just work for them. Now, I don't care anymore either.

Its really the patient that is more affected about the exposure and nudity than the medical staff.

I will concede that I have met a few medical individuals that are very blasé and unconcerned about modesty ( male greater than female) its something that I take care with and I have spoken up on numerous occasions to those individuals either privately or publicly ( gets a better response). Though I will admit the younger doctors are much better with the concept of patient modesty than the older ones.

Jill2doctor makes a very important point:

I agree that the medical modesty comes from the patient side and that most, if not all, medical professionals take it in stride as part of their jobs. They can put any other personal feelings about it aside in their desire to help patients and take care of them. I agree that patients will have varying degrees of modesty and I would guess that medical professionals pick up on that and may adjust their own behavior and patient interactions accordingly. But for some patients who have a high degree of modesty, probably no matter how the care giver interacts will lesson those feelings for them.

I have nursed both male and female patients that never felt comfortable being exposed for a particular procedure. They accepted the need and were appreciative that their modesty was maintained as much as was allowed by the procedure but you can always tell non-verbally that they were not at all comfortable at all being exposed.

Then there are those for whatever religious affiliation prefer same sex health care providers.

Of course you get the other side of the coin where patients are more exhibitionist ( both male and females, but mainly males) rather than modest . I have met quite a few of those but its usually the female nurses and male patients, but there are females as well.

Finally I will admit that the disparity with regards to modesty works in favour of the female patient more often as far as healthcare is concern, as for example a female is more likely to get an all female team than a male for things like surgical or medical care. Even with the GP's I would estimate 99% of practice nurses are female.

The point of my original post is that I don't believe the medical community takes modesty as seriously as they say they do. I think the attitude of "seen it all before" leads to frequent breaches of the patient's modesty. I've been to the doctor twice in the past 3 months where I was nude from the waist down (colonoscopy & hernia exam) and in both cases someone opened the door to the hallway while my genital area was fully exposed. In the case of the colonoscopy, there was a patient in the room across the hall who got a brief, but full view between my legs. What is the point of all of the covering during the exam if you are going to open the hallway door so anyone can look in when it really matters.

I don't mind the violations of my modesty that much, but the hypocrisy is kind of grating... If you really care about my modesty, you could give me a warning before you open the door like it was a peep show...

Ok, maybe I am a little modest.

The point of my original post is that I don't believe the medical community takes modesty as seriously as they say they do. I think the attitude of "seen it all before" leads to frequent breaches of the patient's modesty. . . .

The doctors may have "seen it all before", but THE PATIENT hasn't been seen by them before.

That's a big difference.

Maybe the problem isn't that the medical profession treats modesty inconsistently. Maybe the problem is that patients have unreasonable expectations about how much modesty should be involved in medical care. It is medical care after all. America is a much more prudish country than some others and for reasons that often make no sense. Most of us are appropriately modest in public but medical care is a private event in which a doctor really needs to see what the patient's body looks like or else medical problems get missed. Some people embarrass more than others but some people are just unreasonable.

Is it an an "unreasonable" expectation to keep the door of the exam room closed while the patient is naked and exposed? I would think that is the very MINIMUM expected of respecting someone's privacy.

It appears to me that the original poster has changed his tune here. First he states adamantly that he's unembarrassed by being nude. Now he's claiming that he was humiliated that potentially he could have been seen as the nurse practitioner left the room. Hmmm...

HumblePatient not to make too much out of your experiences , I agree that the PA and your Doctor acted very poorly with regards for your modesty and its protection, of that there is no doubt . I will however add that if you feel as you do:

Is it an an "unreasonable" expectation to keep the door of the exam room closed while the patient is naked and exposed? I would think that is the very MINIMUM expected of respecting someone's privacy.

Then why did you not broach the subject with them at the time and point out their disregard for maintaining your modesty. Its only by effective communication can you help to change attitudes, practices etc.

I can only speak for myself, as a medical person , I do take the concept of patients modesty very seriously, and I can assure you my colleagues do as well ( at least on my unit they do ).

All he had to say was "could you please close the door."

The OP has clearly reversed the point of his first post where he had no modesty. Now he wants safeguards like a person standing outside looking for people and using a secret knock on the door to let the practitioner know the coast is clear to leave the room so no one can see him get dressed for the second the door is opened as the practitioner leaves the room.

As I've posted before, I strip down completely when I'm there for a full physical exam. No gown, no underwear -- nothing. It just feels more comfortable that way and I like to think that I might have a better chance of getting a thorough exam that way. But what I do request is a paper drape. I use that to cover-up for exactly the scenario that you raise here: When the door opens and closes. While I'm comfortable being nude in the confines of the exam room, I don't like the idea of flashing everyone that might be walking down the hall. That's not fair to me, or to them. I cover myself with the paper drape until the doctor enters the room. Then at some point during the exam the drape is removed. Then when it's all over and the doctor is about to open the door and leave, the drape comes into play again when I use it to prevent someone outside the room from seeing me.

YMMV, but this approach works for me.