A kinky continent?

I think maybe I should learn French or German and hang out in the European chat rooms and forums. Sound as if it might be missing some downright fun stuff.

@paulie225, you got that right on the money.

I really don't think any country or continent is kinkier than any other, but is more what they are willing to let in the open or keep hidden. In this instance, I do think places are more open about kink, sex, and nudity which is definitely more an open door in Europe than in the US. Unfortunately, the Puritans really did a number in the US that still has a powerful hold over everything we think and do, therefore kink, sex and nudity are still pretty much in the closet here even though there are more people interested in it than they would ever let on. Basic human nature is the same all over the world so even though many people will never admit it, humans seem to be drawn to sex, nudity, and kink.

I grew up in Germany - I think that Europeans are much less uptight about sex. Nudity isn't considered offensive like it is in America. Sex is normal, not "bad" like in the states. I guess people in Europe are more in tune with their own sexuality and more likely to open up about any interests they may have.

Even though in general European countries are less Puritanical than the US (and even this depends on individual countries or even on individual areas withing countries) there is unfortunately a trend developing presently that indicates that compared to several decades ago, things having to do with sex, nudity and such are becoming more rigid and disapproving than in the past.

A survey indicated for instance that young French females are far less inclined to go topless at beaches than their parents were. A large majority apparently responded to never wish to go topless. The use of nudity in photos in the media is also slowly occurring disfavor and legal restrictions that would have been thought little of a decade ago. Prostitution is also being strictly penalized by legislation as in Sweden (of all places people of my generation would think) and the EU has even officially recommended Swedish type prostitution legislation as the norm for member states. (In case you're wondering - that means that customers who pay for sex are punished and fined for having sex, not the sex workers themselves. And prostitution remains illegal anyway). This type of legislation was even considered for France - of all countries - but was dropped due to other concerns.

Why is this trend occurring? I wish I knew ... but it probably has much to with several factors: a large percentage of the population in most countries come from traditional cultures and these people still adhere to cultural values of prudishness in dress and appearance. Many countries in the EU were former East Block countries and some have remained very religious in their outlook, probably in reaction to their previous political regimes. With their new found freedom to practice religion openly, they now do tend to go overboard and reject modern ideas of sex, nudity and other aspects related.

And then there is the undeniable cultural influence of the US via the world wide media in all its forms. The US dominates the world via so many ways - movies and media are omnipresent and are host to various cultural assumptions and attitudes that people in other countries do pick up and are influenced by. This works in small ways, but over the course of years and decades it does begin to tell.

And all of this change is also reflected in the changing political constellations that are now coming to power in various countries. And these tend to put these newer attitudes into concrete legislation, slowly but surely.

The very open Europe of the late 1970's, the 1980's and early 90's is slowly fading away. I'm certain most people don't really notice, or even worse, that they approve and applaud the change. It may be far far less than in the US, but the trend is here and won't go away in the foreseeable future in my lifetime. So enjoy things while you still can.

Excellent observations agacier especially about going topless.

In 60's Britain you would not dare going topless on the beach, then showing belly buttons in a bikini was only just becoming acceptable. We went aboard on holidays and then British women went topless on a foreign beach where they were surrounded by topless continental women not constrained by the British prudishness and people would not know them.

My daughters caught the bug for going topless from my wife and they would all go topless on the beach. Now though although my grand daughters followed their mothers example up to the age of about 15, so I assume passing out of the emotional turmoil of puberty, they have turned their back on the lifestyle which is their choice, but pester my wife and daughters to cover up.

I wish I knew why they are so reticence, they come from nudist family so no shyness there. Is it due to peer pressure, or external cultural influences.

In our house, we used to all walk around nude, especially in the morning, but when our older daughter entered puberty, she asked that her father wear underpants.

I don't think Europeans are any more kinkier, but they are not so puritanical as over this side of the pond. Some countries have municipal saunas where everyone has to be naked.

In my own country, they have just converted the shower room in my daughters old HS into single curtained showers whilst over in France where my niece is studying at uni, whilst they have a few curtained showers, they live in co-ed blocks and the males and females shower together. Can you imagine that happening over here?

I can only speak for Austria/Germany/Switzerland.

Yes, we're more open and relaxed about sex and nudity than North America. But kinkier - don't know.

The more puritannical and repressive you are, the more people phantasize about sex. My theory at least. When you're pretty relaxed about sex, it becomes accepted and normal. When sex is forbidden, it becomes so much more desirable. We all have sexy thoughts, and if living them out is severely restricted, they ferment and build up enormous pressure. When even partial nudity is a no go and even illegal - guys, you're too sexed up.

Where I live, going topless on a beach is perfectly all right, but if you have a loaded handgun in the glove compartment of your car, you'll get arrested by the police. In the US it is exactly the other way round. So who's kinkier now?

@ amy lewis: I think You are right. That's also my impression. Otherwise the largest differences are between different people. Comparing national societies is only comparing statistic numbers.

I definitely think the US as a whole is much less open about sexuality and nudity than Europeans. But there are regions in the US that are more liberal- mostly in areas that seem to be larger metro areas vs. the rural areas, e.g., South Beach Miami oozes sexuality and feels a world away from most places in the US- probably because many Europeans come there on vacation.

It is my perception that Europeans are much more open and about sexuality and nudity. This openness and frankness I find refreshing. I have not traveled to Europe but hope to in the near future. I will be looking forward to seeing and experiencing this difference first hand.

You have to consider the European origin of our culture in the US. The Puritans weren't looking for a free environment, they were looking for less restrictions for their highly conservative values that were rejected in their home countries. They were the fundamentalist crackpots of their time. That part has been glossed over in the common history books.

Less restrictive perhaps but not necessarily kinkier. What I find weird is countries in the Middle East who insist the women wear Burkas and can't drive.

It is my perception that Europeans are much more open and about sexuality and nudity. This openness and frankness I find refreshing. I have not traveled to Europe but hope to in the near future. I will be looking forward to seeing and experiencing this difference first hand.

Not to dash your hopes, but in the main, there is not all that much public openness about nudity and sexuality in European countries. Nothing that one can see as a tourist I'd say. And besides, there are great differences between countries and even regions. In Poland for instance homophobia is still rampant, while in the Western countries no one really cares a whit about peoples sexual orientation. In Germany you may see more nudity on (their cold Baltic Sea) beaches, in France also and some coastal areas in Spain, but outside of that don't expect to see much of anything in public.

The main openness might very well be in the media - in general at least - where you don't find the shrill, doomsday, apocalyptic tone that seems to be rampant in some US media.

In some countries here you may perhaps chance upon red light districts that operate openly and freely, often with store front brothels and a local police station nearby to keep an eye on things. But that is often mainly good business sense on the part of municipal authorities. Better to tax and license than to (try to) prohibit.

What I find weird is countries in the Middle East who insist the women wear Burkas and can't drive.

The driving prohibition is for Saudi Arabia. Other Middle Eastern countries do not go that far. And burkas are indeed a religious inspired garment that one sees more than in the past. That is the Islamic version of religious conservatism. But it is also a cultural trait that goes back for many centuries and that is not exclusively Islamic. Our democratic ancestors, Hellenic Classical Greeks, weren't all that much better when it came to gender equality nor were Biblical peoples.

What we're seeing is a (hopefully temporary) reversion to older cultural customs and fashions as a reaction to the modernization and ever faster evolving inter-connectivity of our modern world. The more and faster things change, the more some people retreat into imagined and mythical pasts that they consider more proper and righteous.

That is perhaps the common theme of all the different religious fundamentalist movements, be they Christian, Muslim or Jewish. Fear of the present and future. Love of the (imagined) past as being thought to be a lifeline and anchor in a confusing world.

And, for all the explanation and reasoning, they are still a mighty pain in the neck and will cause more trouble than they can ever conceive.

@ tom hoser (post#43)^^^As well as excluded from formal education in many regions...Segregation of right to participate in mosque attendance with opposite gender.....Risk of public stoning for sexual relations outside marriage....Not to mention severing of limb for misdemeanour.. Bloody archaic & right out of the dark ages !

Yet guardedly condones anal sex because it does not represent sexual relations in the supposed "Normal" sense.....History also acknowledges that bestiality was also rife..

Here we have implemented laws that exclude the wearing of the full Burkha inside financial institutions & security buildings for identification purpose....As well as motorbike helmets....Don't like it !! ..too bad....falls within Anti--Terrorism laws.

Yet guardedly condones anal sex because it does not represent sexual relations in the supposed "Normal" sense.....

It's God's Loophole 😃

But more seriously, there has got to be some way to indulge those normal overpowering sexual instincts without impregnating and/or deflowering women ... various societies go about this in different ways. Homosexual activity might be allowed or even idealized - think Classical Greece and especially Sparta (where brides would cut their hair short on their wedding night so as to entice their husband into sexual desire for a female instead of a male). In some African tribal cultures that prohibited early marriage or intercourse, males might be regularly masturbated by one or several girls as a means to control sexual impulses. In other not too long ago periods in the West, use of prostitutes or even female slaves was condoned to alleviate the sexual urges of young men (especially of young men of means).

For most societies normal sex often resulted in pregnancy and that fell within the domain of property rights and inheritance - a very important aspect that had implications far beyond that of mere linear morality.

So if allowing anal sex gets the trick done and soothes those pesky, hyper sexed-up young males, so much the better - for society in general.

Agracier ^^^ No argument there...Enjoy /appreciate your insightful & often wise words...