Circumcision during another surgical procedure

I read on an online forum the following from a French-speaking male:

In his childhood, he had been diagnosed with phimosis, which had not fully gone away despite his efforts to loosen his skin. However his parents did not take the decision to have him circumcised.

Then he had appendicitis, and when he woke up he realized he had bandages on his penis as well. His parents had decided to take the opportunity that he was anyway put to sleep to have him circumcised, without telling him in advance.

I have no means to check if his story is authentic. Anybody here experienced something similar?

Yes , I have indeed heard of this happening . A work colleague had told me that he and his wife had chosen to have their son circumcised while under for a tonsillectomy . It would have been 30 odd years ago now and was undoubtabley carried out privately . I'm not sure if there was any medical issue ? I suspect not . My colleague was circumcised and his wife was a nurse and in my experience, in the UK I believe a class thing factors into such decisions certainly into the 1980's.

I can see the sense in doing the two things in one op, if they are both needed anyway. But the idea of waking up to find you've been unexpectedly circumcised seems wrong. An adult surely has to give consent, and even in the case of a child their parent(s) would surely discuss it with them beforehand.

@praepe1 It seems some adults don't discuss it lest the child would refuse.

Then he had appendicitis, and when he woke up he realized he had bandages on his penis as well. His parents had decided to take the opportunity that he was anyway put to sleep to have him circumcised, without telling him in advance.'

Maybe the parents meant well, but the boy might feel bad about it. Although the parent decides about the procedures to which the child is subjected, he should inform him about it. I know of an example of a boy who was circumcised due to phimosis around the age of 11.

The doctor said the phimosis would not go away and that this was a good time to get circumcised.The single mother decided that the boy would be circumcised. She convinced the boy about the need for surgery, but the procedure itself was her decision.

One thing that was a surprise for the boy was the change of the date of the procedure. The mother could see her son getting nervous as the date of surgery approached. Without telling him anything, she brought the procedure up by two weeks. She told her son about it on the morning of surgery. It was a good idea because it spared him no fear. The boy said he was relieved that it was already that day. The mother, on the other hand, was relieved when she signed a consent to the procedure.

This happened to me. I was tricked into believing I was going to have my appendix removed, instead my foreskin was gone. It was in the early 70s, I was about 14-15 years old. 50+ years later, my appendix is still there and in great shape. However, trust to parents and grown-ups and, later, medical professionals was permanently damaged.

@anal2oral What? Did you have appendicitis symptoms?

@Pecan_nutjob The first time my parents took me to the doc, I was told the doc would only check my skin and why it does not pull back but I saw they were preparing for something much more than this and I had to fight tooth and nail out of this situation. I remember the doc telling my parents he could not do it because I was in shock. Some time later (a year? I cannot remember), I had some pain low and right in my belly and was told it was appendicitis and had to be removed. My trust and naivete did not help.

@anal2oral That does seem pretty underhand to me. Maybe in the 70s there was less respect for children/teens as individuals in their own right.

At least three of my school mates had it done during other surgeries: one had it during hypospadia plastic surgery they said it was common to remove foreskin and frenulum during the urethral relocation, one had it done during hydrocele surgery for hygienic reasons related to cathetherization, same for the other one having an appendectomy. All were not aware of the needing of the procedure before the surgery.

@obertaller Do you know the motivation for the circumcision of the boy with appendicitis?

Hygienic reasons for the placement of a cathether.

@obertaller Interesting. I had an appendectomy but no catheters there.

@obertaller Do you know the motivation for the circumcision of the boy with appendicitis?

Hygienic reasons for the placement of a cathether.

Wow, that sounds like some first class BS in the case of an appendectomy, even many years ago with parents and/or doctors being sneaky, deceitful and duplicitous. My appendectomy was recent, not so long ago and no one came to take a look at my prick to see whether it was cut or not. Simply immaterial to the surgery in question.

And thinking back in time to 1981, I had a pneumectomy and was catherized along with a long hospital stay and no one made any comment nor (thank goodness) alteration to my foreskin.

It wasn't unusual to do circumcision at the same time as removing tonsils. Several of my friends were surprised when they felt uncomfortable and lifted the covers to find a bandage instead of underwear. One guy I knew was 13. He wasn't happy about it.

I think they did it because of the anesthesia and the insurance money. As long as the kid is unconscious might as well do it too. If only a circumcision was being done they use local anesthesia. It can still be uncomfortable though. It happened to me. Of course local anesthesia is not as dangerous as general anesthesia.

Thinking about where they injected the anesthesia makes me cringe. It wasn't just in the penis. They used a very long thin needle and made two deep injections under the pubic bone. If they do it right and wait a few minutes the injections they make around the base of the penis and around the glans and foreskin aren't supposed to hurt. There are a lot of injections. I definitely felt them though. Also he had to give me more lidocaine during the procedure.

A lot of guys were circumcised as teenagers. It was a popular thing at that time but hadn't been when they were infants. It seems a strange thing to be based on popularity.

One doctor I knew said if keeping it clean was a good reason to cut something off, most people wouldn't have ears.

In my shoulder surgery the only way I knew they put in a catheter was by looking at the itemized bill. They put it in after I was asleep and took it out in recovery before I woke up.

A lot of guys were circumcised as teenagers. It was a popular thing at that time but hadn't been when they were infants. It seems a strange thing to be based on popularity.

One doctor I knew said if keeping it clean was a good reason to cut something off, most people wouldn't have ears.

It is scary to think that circumcision is often treated as a fashion, like making a choice in what kind of hat or hairstyle to wear. But it is a rather permanent fashion choice and moreover, one that only few people will ever see.

one had it during hypospadia plastic surgery they said it was common to remove foreskin and frenulum during the urethral relocation, one had it done during hydrocele surgery for hygienic reasons related to cathetherization, same for the other one having an appendectomy. All were not aware of the needing of the procedure before the surgery.

Hypospadias or other penile surgery, I can understand possibly removing the foreskin is necessary. I know that any surgery involving degloving of the penis also results in circumcision as a by product. But ‘hygienic reasons related to catheterisation’ seems an extraordinary excuse on the part of the medical profession. It's not difficult to tape a foreskin back temporarily if it's in the way, surely.

This thread has really opened my eyes to some things that go on!

It's not difficult to tape a foreskin back temporarily if it's in the way, surely.

This thread has really opened my eyes to some things that go on!

Were it not for religion and social-cultural practices and beliefs, circumcisions would be a fairly uncommon medical procedure.

Hypospadias or other penile surgery, I can understand possibly removing the foreskin is necessary. I know that any surgery involving degloving of the penis also results in circumcision as a by product. But ‘hygienic reasons related to catheterisation’ seems an extraordinary excuse on the part of the medical profession. It's not difficult to tape a foreskin back temporarily if it's in the way, surely.

This thread has really opened my eyes to some things that go on!

I was catheterized on two different trips to ER a couple of years ago. I was admitted to the hospital on one of those trips. The reason for the catheter was I was injured and they didn't want me up and walking or even moving a great deal. Afterwards I checked out training videos and actual videos where they inserted catheters. The training for inserting a catheter is extremely detailed. Everything they used except the catheter was included in a sterile catheter tray. The catheters were different sizes. They used exactly the same procedure with me.

They cleaned me between my legs upper thighs, low belly and everything in between. Then they did it again with another solution. The foreskin is rolled back and clean glans and foreskin were cleaned thoroughly. They put a drape with a hole so just the penis is exposed. Then they wrapped a folded strip of gauze at the base of the glans. Then they changed to sanitary gloves included in the catheter tray. The procedure for putting on the gloves was designed so that the hand did not touch the outside of the gloves. Then the doctor or nurse held the penis thoroughly over the gauze. They never touched my penis. After taking hold of my penis he didn't release it again until the catheter was in place. That hand was considered contaminated. He used the other hand for everything. He was given a syringe from the tray. It was filled with sterile lubricant containing lidocaine. He firmly pressed the syringed to the opening of the urethra and injected the lubricant. That felt so weird. It lubricated the urethra all the way to the bladder. They were extremely when opening the package containing the catheter. He never touched the packaging. The package was opened and about six inches of the catheter was exposed but not touched. The doctor grasped the catheter about four inches from the tip his sterile glove. He positioned the tip at the opening without touching either. Then his started pushing it in me. It burned like hell at first. As he inserted it more of the packaging was opened and he grasped the catheter lower sill never touching the package. It was weird seeing that long thing disappear inside me. It didn't hurt until it passed where my prostate surrounded the urethra. Then it only hurt a moment. I felt go through the opening of the bladder. He fully inserted it. After that he inserted a syringe of saline in one opening of the catheter and inflated the balloon. Then he pulled the catheter until if was firmly against the bladder opening. That also felt strange. The tube was already connected to the collection bag. Then urine started coming out. For some reason that embarrassed me. It was like I lost control of my bladder which I actually did.

That was done three times while I was in the hospital. They used the same procedure each time.

The fear in catheterization is contaminating the catheter and exposing the urethra and bladder to the contamination. With the area thoroughly sanitized it reduces the number of infections.

I'm not buying the hygienic reason for circumcision story. That is imaginary nonsense.

I'm not buying the hygienic reason for circumcision story. That is imaginary nonsense.

The simplest explanation would be one of collusion between parents and doctors. Keep the impending circumcision secret beforehand and then concoct some kind of halfway believable medical sounding reason for the procedure that could fool a non-medically educated person, especially a youngster.

Just to clarify: I never said circumcision is advised or necessary for catheterization. I had myself some cathetherizations during minor medical events and no one even think about that... Nurses knows what to do with an intact penis, how to clean it and how to preserve hygiene of urethra during insertion of the cathether.

About my friends: while I partially understand the circumcision during the hypospadia surgery which is quite common, the operation during hydrocelectomy or appendectomy for hygienic reason for the cathether placement has no clear medical reason, I think it is substantially an excuse to justify to the young patient (probably with complacent parents) what would be anyway advised also in absence of the main reason for surgery. I am not surprised in those cases the patient has a pre-surgical genital examination and if something wrong with the foreskin is discovered the doctor exploit the general anesthesia also for the circumcision.

@obertaller You mean the kids were told that they were circumcised due to catheterization, whereas it was actually a decision by their family (for whatever reason) discussed in advance with physicians, but they would not admit it to their child?

@Pecan_nutjob yes I think so. They were persuaded by the doctor to have it done possibly for recurrent foreskin issues in previous examinations. The pediatrician was the same of me and my parents were advised in several occasions to have the surgery done several times, I am pretty sure if a general anhestesia would be needed for me for other reason the circumcision would be done also to me behind my back.

I see. Sounds like a bit like the original story. They would not have sent the kid of hospital just for circumcision (perhaps because it would have entailed explaining things to the kid), but the opportunity of full anesthesia was seized.

Any idea what the foreskin issues were?

@agracier

It is scary to think that circumcision is often treated as a fashion,

I'm always amazed, in particular, how many women treat it lightly and casually joke about it.

I for instance heard a friend of mine, a good meaning person, joke about a boy that he would come back from the hospital with something less. Apparently she had been gossiping with other mothers of her neighborhood. I doubt that she would have joked about her daughter if it had been "necessary" to remove a bit of her vulva, or would have gossiped about it.

Another friend of mine was talking about circumcising her boy if retraction did not work, she saw no inconvenience in the procedure. An acquaintance was discussing sex life, circumcision came into the conversation, she could not see that there could be any inconvenience in the procedure.

@agracierI'm always amazed, in particular, how many women treat it lightly and casually joke about it.

I for instance heard a friend of mine, a good meaning person, joke about a boy that he would come back from the hospital with something less. Apparently she had been gossiping with other mothers of her neighborhood. I doubt that she would have joked about her daughter if it had been "necessary" to remove a bit of her vulva, or would have gossiped about it.

Another friend of mine was talking about circumcising her boy if retraction did not work, she saw no inconvenience in the procedure. An acquaintance was discussing sex life, circumcision came into the conversation, she could not see that there could be any inconvenience in the procedure.

I wonder if it became stylish to remove a female's hood if there would be such casual talk about it? I can't say I would be telling my friends and neighbors that we had to have her hood removed to make it more convenient for her future bf to get at her clitoris. How about "we felt it looked better having her clit permanently bared". It was easier to wash and it it made such a cute little bump in her panties. We did that FOR her while she was having another unnecessary to remove her tonsils (and adenoids).

I wonder if it became stylish to remove a female's hood if there would be such casual talk about it?

I fear that both go together. A thing/procedure cannot become stylish or popular, without there having been a great amount of social discourse, discussions on media and just plain word-of-mouth gossip.

Stylishness and popularity are predicated on there being a lot of discussion on a particular subject.

And I think you've hit the nail on the head on how gossip would go amongst parents.

Now, suggest this about clitoral hood removal in earnest and one will be crucified and vilified. Which makes it all the more odd why similar remarks and justifications for male foreskin removal are bandied about so casually, as if they were the most normal thing in the world.

@agracier Totally. I have female friends who would be horrified to just hear about anything like that done to female genitalia (including one who was also against piercing ears until the girl is over 18 ) but casually mentioned circumcision like it's nothing, or even joked about it.

How about some girls jumping in here. I'd like to hear your opinions about removing your hood in general not just as a surprise when you are having your tonsils out. How do you feel about fathers talking to each other so casually about having their daughter's hood removed? "I'm thinking about taking my daughter in to have her hood removed" or "I had her hood removed at birth". "I think it looks better that way and it's a lot easier for her to wash when she is old enough to do it herself" It's much better "hygienically".

Come on girls jump in here.