Choosing to have your son cut or not

If the doc doesn't strongly recommend it, I classify circoncision in the same category as excision, aka useless genital mutilation (keyword is useless)

you don't want him to have aids? teach him to put a condom

I have 4 sons. When the oldest was born he was in the NICU for 2 days after birth so they wouldn't do it directly after birth. When I was approached a couple of months later I said no. Being a nurse I saw several circumcisions and couldn't believe that it was done with no anesthesia or pain deadening and saw several of the infants crying for long periods of time and flinching at diaper changes even days later.

I said no to the other boys and was repeatedly asked and questioned about the decision. Several times they tried to tell me how bad a decision I was making.

The boys are happy and healthy.

If I had had children, I'd have had any males circ'd.

We've been trying to conceive for a couple of years now, and have decided up front that if we have a boy, he wouldn't get automatically circumcised.

Good choice. A word of caution. Make certain that you do not mistakenly sign the "Circumcision Request" when admitting into the hospital. Familiar with the routine? You are in labor and want a room stat. Admissions hands you a stack of papers. Sign here, sign here, sign here. Ask for the "Circumcision Request" form and tear it up. You should be good to go. Best wishes on conceiving.

Good choice. A word of caution. Make certain that you do not mistakenly sign the "Circumcision Request" when admitting into the hospital. Familiar with the routine? You are in labor and want a room stat. Admissions hands you a stack of papers. Sign here, sign here, sign here. Ask for the "Circumcision Request" form and tear it up. You should be good to go. Best wishes on conceiving.

'Circumcision Request Form'... I've never seen or heard of such a thing,I very much doubt if that type of form exists here in the UK. I don't know about Australia where Clairsnips lives, but if a young couple asked about circumcision for their new born baby boy here in England they would get very strange looks to say the least, and possibly a little friendly chat with social services as well. Routine infant circumcision just doesn't cross the minds of new parents or health professionals for that matter at all. And why is that? Well because it is an absolutely pointless thing to do...

'Circumcision Request Form'... I've never seen or heard of such a thing,I very much doubt if that type of form exists here in the UK. I don't know about Australia where Clairsnips lives, but if a young couple asked about circumcision for their new born baby boy here in England they would get very strange looks to say the least

It depends. Many private hospitals will arrange it for you I'm told, but it's never offered by the hospital - maybe by your OBGYN, but you will have decided that well before admission.

When I was born in 1962, it was routine. The hospital wanted the routine approval to do me and my father refused. He himself was not circumcised (born in 1922) and he did not feel it was necessary. He told me the hospital gave him quite a bit of grief about it but he stood firm. He even went as far as to ask our minister if there was anything wrong with not getting circumcised (turns out he wasn't either) and even one of the nurses at the hospital confided that her husband was uncut and they had several kids LOL. Yes, I looked different than my Jewish classmates but so what?

Hello Aardvark, About the same scenario with me. I was born in 1950 when circumcision was routine. Fortunately, my dad was adamantly against circumcision and as such I was not cut. When I enter the seventh grade and gym class and the required showers I soon found that I was the only male in my class that sported a foreskin. Thank you DAD.

Circumcision is a topic on which there are strongly held preferences and opinions on both sides of the argument.

If one recognises the plurality of views, and the fact that it is not straightforward to reverse, then isn't there a logical conclusion that the decision either way is one which should be devolved to the owner of the the foreskin, when he is at a suitable age to make his own decision?

Dr. Fox

when he is at a suitable age to make his own decision?

Like my late father, my oldest uncle was uncut too (I image my other uncles in between were too - my father was the baby of the family). He related a story about my uncle which I had posted in another thread. He was a Major in Army Air Corps during WW2 and served in the Pacific Theatre. He contracted a jungle infection and had to be circumcised as an adult. My father told me the procedure was very unpleasant for him. That is probably the biggest downside to being of an age to make the decision. You are fully aware of the trauma.

Hello Aardvark, My dad was in the U.S. Navy during WW2 in the Pacific . He was a gunner on the turrets (16" cannons) of the USS New Jersey Battleship. He told one evening during dinner how the "Medics" were doing "sloppy circumcisions" on board. His dinner table discussions were always interesting. BTW, he would not allow himself to be cut.

If i had a son i would never circumsize him for no reason. If there is a medical relevance i would try other methods.

He told one evening during dinner how the "Medics" were doing "sloppy circumcisions" on board. His dinner table discussions were always interesting. BTW, he would not allow himself to be cut.

He was lucky escaping circumcision. I have read many an account how some doctors in the armed forces would make life miserable for anyone who refused. Some docs had this thing about circing and even performed the operation unasked for or unannounced while performing another unrelated procedure, preferably one that needed total anesthesia. Then the newly awoken patient would find that he hurt in two places instead of just one where he expected it to be.

escaping circumcision. I have read many an account how some doctors in the armed forces would make life miserable for anyone who refused. Some docs had this thing about circing

Hello agracier, I experience a similar situation on a domestic level. I was employed as a salaried supervisor by a large industrial manufacturer in the early 1980's that had there own in house doctor and Register Nurse. I get a call one day from the RN that "The doctor needs to see you." OK, what is this about I'm thinking to myself as I proceed to his office. Apparently I am due for my annual physical. I never liked this doctor but he out ranks me so I guess I need to comply. "Drop your drawers." Cough twice. And then the doctor proceeds to retract my foreskin. Then he gets in a conversation of how my foreskin needs to be circumcised. He would do it for free and give me a paid week off work to recover. Some small talk trying to convince to do the deed. Finally I seen a break and got the h*** out of his office. Later I found out that my General Supervisor had put him up to it. The doctor had told me that my foreskin needed to be circumcised just to be intimidating. Things were not going good for me as my general supervisor was trying to get rid of me. One year later I was required to have a MANDATORY company physical exam. Basically, I refused and told my superior to go to h*** plus a few other chose words. I got written up for it. Shortly there after I was out on the street.

Yes, I agree. Superiors and doctors can make life miserable for refusing. On with life.

Later I found out that my General Supervisor had put him up to it. The doctor had told me that my foreskin needed to be circumcised just to be intimidating. .

It staggers my imagination how any co-worker or supervisor or underling in a company would have any inkling of an employee's circumcision status.

Who (voluntarily) goes around talking about this when you go to work somewhere? Hi guys, I'm new here, name's John Doe, married, 2 kids, masters degree in xxx and circumcised (or not) ... ha ha

I suppose a company doctor would know about every male employee, but if so, isn't that privileged medical knowledge that should be kept private?

There are some real wacky - and scary - obsessed proponents of circumcision out there in the world. It is baffling why they think all males must conform to their notions of penile configuration. My father was one, though never in a position to do anything about it. My mother had the upper hand and drew a very clear line in the sand ... ha ha

Agracier, The company doctor knew my circumcision status when I did the pre-employment physical. OK, good to go. Later, I had problems with another employee, a peeping tom with a camera who was out to get me. Problems, BIG PROBLEMS! WE WERE AT WAR! Everything I did got sabotaged. Now enters my boss, who adds to my problems. Soon, this is "F.U.B.A.R." The only solution is to get rid of Wayne, but we can't just fire him, we'll drive him out. Get him to quit. Make life as miserable as possible for him (which they did). They tried the circumcision thing just to be intimating to get me to leave. Didn't work - I still drew my pay check. The BATTLE continues. The upcoming company physical was legitimate but I didn't want that (several curse words) so called company doctor (there, I'm polite) playing with my penis again. And as such I REFUSED to see him for which I got wrote up. Still employed but not winning the WAR! Finally, I got sick of the whole mess and simply walked out the door never to return.

Well I am the only regrets is they took a bit to much so I am tight .so just a word I still had a few health problems there would have been worse if it would have been not done. so buyer beware ,I would suggest it be done ,heard of guys in there 40 having it done because of health problems ,

I would suggest it be done ,heard of guys in there 40 having it done because of health problems ,

I had a seriously infected ingrown large toenail, operated on when I was 28. Does that mean it should have been foreseen and predicted and removed at birth as a proactive measure?

Tell me, who can predict their medical problems years and decades ahead of time? One might as well routinely remove appendixes and tonsils from the new-born if that is the reasoning.

As excuses for infant circumcision go, possible later health problems is one of the lamest of all.

One might as well routinely remove appendixes and tonsils from the new-born if that is the reasoning.

There are a whole string of procedures e.g. removal of appendixes, tonsils, adenoids, insertion of grommets, male or female circumcision, blood letting, drilling holes in heads to let spirits out, frontal lobotomies, nephropexy which have been used over different points of history which are now not used, or less commonly used. This is a reflection of a general trend in surgery to be more conservative, and greater understanding around the risks / benefits of some treatments.

Some of the procedures just don't work and / or are harmful (trepanning, blood letting); lobotomies are discredited as having too severe side effects and we now have better treatment options. Tonsillectomy, adenoidectomy and grommets are all still used but in a much more carefully chosen selection of cases in reduced numbers. Even early dental decay is now treated much more conservatively compared to a time when 'drill and fill' was practised at any opportunity, sometimes by dentists ratcheting up fees per filling.

There was a time when some surgeons would remove healthy appendices if they were doing other intra-abdominal surgery. We now understand that the appendix is probably not purely vestigial, and is important in contributing to the gut microbiome.

Fundamentally any medical intervention or treatment is a balance of risks / harm to intended positive effects. I do not think are any known drugs which have no possible adverse effects. However there should be a process of consent around any intervention (or an alternate legal process such as in forcible treatment in the cases of mental health or treatment of minors with unwilling parents), and it can never be acceptable to wake up without your appendix or foreskin if that has not been consented to. This even extends to the situation where a surgeon opens an abdomen for condition a, finds an unexpected but harmful condition b, which absolutely requires surgical intervention, such as a tumour. They cannot legally act if there is no consent to intervene in condition b.

Consent is everything in the case of treatments / interventions. It should also be *informed*. But that's a whole other issue as to what counts as informed.

Dr. Fox

Circumcision is a always an emotive subject, especially in Europe - where it is not quite so popular.

As a Gay man, I have never been Married or had children. But as a Circumcised male, I am in favour of male Circumcision, and if I had had a son (or sons), I certainly would have insisted that they would have been Circumcised.

It would probably have meant having to go 'private' to get it done, as the NHS (in the UK) have stopped doing them - except in an emergency. Apparently it was to save money in the cost cutting 1950's and has continued. That is probably why there are so many people who suffer from Phimosis, Paraphimosis & Balanitis, often suffering in silence due to acute embarrassment at the thought of going to the Doctor with such a complaint.

I actually know of someone who was like that, he had Phimosis, and just ignored it. He eventually ended up with Penile Cancer and died from it. It was said at the time that, "If he had been Circumcised, he would probably be alive today". That was a few years ago (of course).

The "W.H.O." have stated that there are many medical benefits to being Circumcised at birth, but have stopped short of recommending routine Circumcision of Boys. Leaving the decision up to the Parents as they see fit.

Being a child of the 50s my parents asked if i should be circumsied after my mother found my penis to be red and tender on occasions. The Doctor obviously disagreed although i did notice my foreskin was fully retracted at bathtimes and on home visits by our family doctor.

O have had no further problems since and my play "doctor" has no problem fully retracting my foreskin during my genital examination.

I ensured my two sons were checked regularly up to and though puberty with no noticable problems to require a visit to the Doctor. Stangely they developed at different rates the older boy "growing" at a slower rate to his younger brother.

As circumsized man if I had a son I would not have automatically had him circumsized. If it was medically needed that's a different reason. I have wondered what it would have been like to be uncut. How would it feel, what would my foreskin looked like, what would the reaction of partners have been.

It should be up to the person whether or not they want it done. Obviously a child is under legal guardianship of the parents and if it's their decision to do it at a young age theres no recourse. But a man lives as an adult most of his life, so the decision should be his. It's a little more difficult of a procedure as an adult, but should still be the mans decision, not something his parents decided 18 years ago when he was an infant.

I have five brothers, four older and one younger. Each of them was circumcised at birth. For whatever reason, I was not. When I was about three years old my doctor recommended that I be circumcised. I have vague memories of the event. I was not told about this until I was 19 or 20 tears old; at which time, a flood of latent memories returned. I remembered feeling ostracized by my brothers for being "different". I remembered being glad that the procedure would make me just like my brothers. I even remembered being in the outpatient procedure room and seeing my penis all bandaged. I have regretted my circumcision ever since this was explained to me. I don't know if there was some medical or physiological reason that I was circumcised, or if it was just an elective procedure that could make the doctor a few extra dollars. A woman once explained to me that in the 1950s in the US, doctors were paid $100 to deliver a girl baby and $110 to deliver a baby boy. I asked her why the disparity, and she simply said, "$10 for the circumcision." Perhaps the doctor was mourning the $10 that had eluded him at my birth. That made me angry that doctors would permanently mutilate a child for profit.

I have two boys. I insisted that they not be circumcised. They are in their late teens now, and there have been no issues.

Ladies, do not do this to your sons. If a medical or physiological issue develops, deal with it then, and in the least radical and destructive manner possible. If your son wants to be circumcised as an adult, let him decide. If a doctor recommended a preemptive appendectomy for your baby because one day he/she might develop appendicitis, you would think it preposterous.

Morty: You said you regret you were circumcised, do you suffer from adverse effects?

Pecan,

It's difficult to say, really. I have had very little exposure to what an uncircumcised penis is like until the advent (explosion) of internet porn [https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph5a732e1015dae].

Can't help wondering what it would be like if I hadn't been cut. Are there psychological effects? Probably; none too deep though. I just think it's a dirty trick to do that to an innocent boy.

For you ladies who think it's better to cut off the foreskins of your boys for hygienic reasons; imagine if a man thought you should have your external genitalia cut off because it was wrinkly and smelled? Not a good justification.

@Morty said

For you ladies who think it's better to cut off the foreskins of your boys for hygienic reasons; imagine if a man thought you should have your external genitalia cut off because it was wrinkly and smelled? Not a good justification.

That is NOWHERE NEAR the same thing and you know it.

Cutting off the vulva [external genitalia] on a woman is not anywhere near the same thing as removing the penile prepuse.

If you DON'T know it, your general knowledge is questionable.

I have a good friend who is uncut. He has no problems. But I use to tease him when he was act cocky. I'd always tell him I was going to take him to a vet I knew to get him circumcised. The vet who is a friend of our families and a former hospital nurse.... has always said she would love to circumcised a hot guy and well... my friend is a hottie.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

@Morty said

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

#1---If you are quoting Shakespeare, you are using the quote incorrectly. You should look that up to see what the phrase you quoted actually means.

#2---The lady doth desire an answer to Pecan's question.

Susie, you need to be gentle with Morty, he went to school when the sex ed class consisted of some other dumb bastard telling you everything he didn't know as if it was factual.