Ladies..How close to the areola during auscultation?

Well again, I am just a nurse but seriously you really only need to, when listening to the heart, place the scope on one place on the chest, which is just left of the sternum. The apex of the heart is just where the heart is closest to the surface and more easily heard. But if you know what you are listening for then again, the one place to the left of the sternum is all you need. As far as lung fields are concerned breasts don't have anything to do with those either because they can all be assessed from the back with the exception of the middle lobe on the right side. And again, breasts are not an issue there either, unless your patient is very well endowed and they are laying on their back. But then, you are still not placing the scope on the breast.

Now there are of course exceptions to every rule when it comes to the human body because that's the human factor, lol. If you are in to see the cardio because you are having heart issues, or are in to see the pulmonary doc, it is quite possible that at some point they may in fact need to place the stethoscope in different places. They both are highly trained and are listening for something so slight, just a tad different that is outside of the norm, that it is possible that the scope needs to be directly over it to pick it up. That would be logical and as a matter of fact during my clinical rotations I did witness this once, but it was on a 5 year old.

Now a days with the advent of electric scopes the need for a lot of this is moot. I know my electric Littmann can pick up fleas having sex a mile away. However in a normal medical setting with a patient that is not in immediate danger, getting anyplace even near a nipple, in this country anyway is an invitation to hand over your license and become Bubba's bitch behind bars for a few years.

Mashie

At the three med schools at which I've taught, the students are instructed to have the patient move the breast as necessary to listen to the 4 cardiac ascultation points. This is true for women and overweight men or men with some measure of gynecomastia. Lungs can be adequately examined from just lateral to the sternum, the flanks and the posterior chest. Never through any substantial amount of breast tissue.

Both Mashie and Jds are being very very defensive. both naturally and understandably in the academic teaching both received, real life practice is different, maybe is really the phsycal exam that is not so important now, still is in countries like Uk for example. There's a distance between the holly academic orientations and the fruit of real daily practice. Am I wrong? Are really all the youtube videos irrelevant ?

Interesting then when a real debate and this case was a low profile ones reveals incapacity of certain people to deal with anything that fits outside the " yesman" policy.

Just as a matter of interest it was an Englishman by the name of Tim Berners-Lee who devised & gave the world the internet medium based on the theory (& fact) that protocols link hypertext documents into a working system & so the www was born

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_internet

Now if one member wants me out say it to moderators and ban me at least I never called asshole or any other unplesant thing to noone here

Just as a matter of interest it was an Englishmen who devised & gave the world the internet medium

oh no God was not an american alone???

I'll admit that Europeans generally have much less body modesty than Americans. That doesn't change the fact that a play doctor is arguing with real medical professionals from the US and UK. So you found some YouTube videos that ostensibly support your assertions. That doesn't hold water in the face of real life experience. Can you possibly comprehend that even valid educational videos aren't real life? How about this from the University of California at San Diego? This is what's used to teach real medical students. https://meded.ucsd.edu/clinicalmed/heart.htm#Auscultation

From my part I really have nothing to add think both parts and one was mainly me exposed their reasons. The debate from my part was open and in good will.

I like and allways was a reference for me that last link

Dougie sweetheart, I absolutely was not being defensive. In order for me to be defensive you would have had to have offended me in some way or another prior to your last post where you mention me, key words being LAST post. So my post describing to the board the points on the human body usually used or needed to make a full and correct diagnosis was me just simply stating medical facts, and you are correct, as I have been taught them.

One thing you also need to understand is that techniques do vary between countries sometimes, usually not a lot, but can and do. Also things in the medical world change on a daily basis sometimes as well. For example, I have been a nurse for about 15 years. The way that CPR is administered in that 15 years has changed 5 different times. So what may be good medical technique today might not be tomorrow.

And with that being said, and I can say this as fact, not being defensive here, but I can say as medical fact, the United States has always been and still currently is a leader in medicine. There is a reason half the world flocks to the United States for medical care no? We must know what we are doing and we must do a good job at it. I could be wrong but I don't see to many people flocking to Portugal for medical care, do you? If I remember correctly Portugal is known for it's cork production. Hummm, world leader in medicine or world leader in cork production? Boy, that's a hard choice.

Now, Jds4med brings up a good point here, not to mention a valid one. It doesn't matter what country you are from or what your medical degree is the bottom line here is, you are a LAYMAN, a PLAY doctor, your opinion on medical techniques do not matter. With all due respect, you are neither qualified nor are you educated enough to argue with any medical professional in any country about what is and what isn't correct medical procedure. Now that is me being defensive Dougie.

Dougie, remember I AM a moderator, no one needs to out you to one because I am here monitoring. You are correct no one has the right to talk to you or anyone else as rude as that person did and I will take care of it, you have my word.

However Dougie, you have to understand as well that as offensive as what he said to you in his post, it is even more offensive when you make a comment about and I quote, "being too damn American". Okay so I am going to give you fair warning now because I am about to get defensive again.

Too damn American? What in the freaking heck does that mean? And again I quote you, "with all respect"? Ummm excuse me? Please allow me to explain something to you Dougie, I am an American. I am a very very proud American. I live in the most free country in the world. We have our problems and our issues, every country does. We are a world power. The world often looks to MY country for money, education, medicine, knowledge, food, leadership and a billion and one other things. We look to Portugal for cork so we can seal our wine bottles and make boards so we can throw darts at it. We Americans are free, 100 percent free. We are one of the only countries who can really say that. I have a Constitution that guarantees my rights and a flag that guarantees my freedom, you Dougie cannot and will not ever be able to say the same. And again, if I didn't quite make myself clear the first time let me reiterate, world leader in medical advancements and in so so so much more, or world leader in cork production? I don't know Dougie, that might be a hard choice?

And one last thing Dougie, no hard feelings. And no, you are not going to get banned, please. Remember, this site goes by American rules and laws. We have the freedom of speech here, it's our first right in our Constitution and applies to every American citizen. Oh wait, you aren't one. Oh well being the forgiving country we are, it's all good. besides that, debate makes for great forum content, not to mention great entertainment doesn't it?

"with all respect" my dear Dougie

Mashie

Well said, Mashie.

Respectfully, two slight issues, however 😃 The world leader in medicine up until WWII was Germany. When my father studied medicine in New York in the late 50s and early 60s, he learned German so he could read the state of the art texts from Europe.

Second, the right of free speech is not the first in the Constitution, it's the first in the Bill of Rights. Many freedoms are outlined in the body of that great document. 😜

Regardless, your points are expressed well.

Jds4med, thanks for the compliment here, but with all due respect to you, I said that America has always been and is still a world leader in medicine, which is a very accurate statement. Had I said that America IS the world leader then that would imply that America has and is the only leader in medicine. By saying is A leader, grammatically speaking means that we are ONE of the leaders, not THE only leader. See the difference there?

We are in 100 percent agreement about the Constitution being a great document, personally I think it's the best document in the entire world, but you know, that's just me lol. However good Sir with all due respect again, the Bill of Rights ARE the first ten amendments TO/OF the Constitution of the United States. So while they are on separate pieces of paper, they by definition are in fact, one and the same document.

You know, I can't spell worth a crap, but I graduated from high school with 29 credits, 18 of those were in History and English. My plan was to be a History and English teacher, but I went onto nursing instead, lol. And, I am really going to show my nerdiness here, but I love the Constitution so much that I used to read it for fun. Yes, I am just that nerdy. Lol.

Mashie

Well don't wish to say open a can of worms here but ...& I repeat "but" while America as a nation does have some well run medical establishments which incorporates & harnesses modern technologies fairly effectively....It does not have a carte blanche monopoly on quality of care /technological supremecy, irrespective of what anyone might think...to the contrary there are numerous countries around the globe equally as advanced technologically right across the board...Yes the USA is also a fine exponent of quality medical care...I don't deny that...however that very same medic care can also be quite crippling economically...Which is borne out statistically by both WHO & the UN ratings on medical care.

www.businessinsider.com.au/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical-tourism

It's a good thing when folks take pride in their country & it's achievements...As do I because I too am a proud Australian....as well as Pride in the Nation itself....we collectively are certainly not slouches when it comes to the wellbeing of all those that reside within her borders.

I'll admit that Europeans generally have much less body modesty than Americans. That doesn't change the fact that a play doctor is arguing with real medical professionals from the US and UK. So you found some YouTube videos that ostensibly support your assertions. That doesn't hold water in the face of real life experience. Can you possibly comprehend that even valid educational videos aren't real life? How about this from the University of California at San Diego? This is what's used to teach real medical students. https://meded.ucsd.edu/clinicalmed/heart.htm#Auscultation

Well, would you look at that...they actually discourage you from listening through clothing.

Well, would you look at that...they actually discourage you from listening through clothing.

Listening through clothing isn't best practice but, depending on the circumstances and complaint, may be adequate.

Listening through clothing? As I've said previously that's like enjoying a beautiful view with the curtains drawn. Sorry but it's never adequate. You might be able to tell who's alive but who knows?

I've had doctors do a quick ascultation through clothes as a matter of course during either routine consultations or visits having nothing to do with respiratory or cardiovascular issues. I agree that they might as well not have bothered. The worst was at an urgent care center for a possible ear infection. The doctor 'listened' through my shirt AND leather vest. I didn't really care because I had a specific, unrelated issue.

Dear Mashie, Let’s start to by my “I think you are too damn american “, now here the fact that my English is limitated can have played a role if one of you would say “ you are too damn European “ I would have taken it with fairplay and sense of humour and even as a compliment is just about differences between cultures really.When I say that is not putting the focus on negative things is a global thing for the good and the less good no People or culture are perfect ( Apologize if offended you and other American Citiziens here wasn’t really my intention).

I was in US in 1992 and liked a lot the States I visited and the people I met ( quite nice and polite all over, some small differences between states naturally ) . I was also impressed by such an organized country and recognized at the time that my own country was still needing a long journey to achieve similar levels of organization . And so we did and we continue to increase efforts to make Portugal a better country .

I consider the American constitution a mankind patrimony: has had influence internationally on later constitutions and legal thinking as well as in the principles of the rule of law, separation of powers and recognition of individual rights.

That influence extended to my country . Following the American Revolutionary War, Portugal was the first neutral country to recognize the United States.Portugal was also the first unified national-state in Western Europe, long time ago almost 1000 years ago. Portugal was one of the first countries to abolish slavery and together with San Marino the first European country to abolish death penalty.

We are a small country and we are Europeans. My country also has a democracy and a constitution and a very strong Identity and culture is 1000 years of history comparing to the 240 years of United States existence. .

You are a very powerful Nation but you are not the absolute owners of the world or knowledge.

You said : “ If I remember correctly Portugal is known for it's cork production. Hummm, world leader in medicine or world leader in cork production? Boy, that's a hard choice.” : I will even not reply to that is not worth it . but I will reply with this: Mortality rate, under-5 (per 1,000 live births): US – 7; Portugal 4 ( 2013 data).

Finally for now : Medical professionals contributions and presence of real medical professionals are certainly extremely welcome but they don't own this place not even being Moderators. This Site belongs to all contributors of good will and I know Mashie that you are one of them but when you say " Now, Jds4med brings up a good point here, not to mention a valid one. It doesn't matter what country you are from or what your medical degree is the bottom line here is, you are a LAYMAN, a PLAY doctor, your opinion on medical techniques do not matter" so if a non medical professional opinions doesn't matter " I think the debate is not worthy: Maybe better create another section just for you medical guys or a status in wich you " Gods of medicine ". quote your Holly Medical Bibles instead of reconizing to all: play patients ply doctors, fetichists and non fetchists the right to debate openly : we do are all patients at least in real life some with many years of interesting expereinces to share.

That was all for now ( and I tried to get out of this thread with elegance and humour before first even desiring Love to you all)

Love to you all again

Dr Douglas

Douglas it is entirely true that this site belongs to everyone. I do offer my advice just as I do in real life. I try to keep the idiots from doing idiotic things. As in real life, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You pay your money and you takes your chances.

This is the second or third time you are agressive with me and I was never with you or any other member here at least intentionally a debate of ideas is a debate of ideas the initial question of lv2 exxam was " Ladies,if your doctor listens to your heart with your gown lowered during your Physical,how close to the areola does he/she get with the stethoscope?" is a legitimate question coming from a fetichist member : my medical fetish started by auscultation many years ago for a Layman I know a lot about chest exams . My first rwply to this thread was simply saying " I really would not say can't happen in ladies wih smaller breasts or even bigger even for lungs auscultation patient lying down " being aware that at auscultation areas like breasts and scapulae areas in the back are omited and breasts are avoided not because of modesty but like was said compromise quality of sound and auscultation.[/i]

Can you tell is totally impossible the stethoscope touch a lady aureola at an auscultation at lateral left decubitus?

because I don't really participate much at threads nowdays partially because I feel many times are a repettition of old ones and also because I like open sincere and fairplay debates cordial and I am again being fed at the aggressiveness iam being feeling. And honestly I don't give a damn I know how physical exams are taught in US and in Europe I am ware and had " worked " well all draping and gown techniques in all parts of the body. And here gowns are very rare to see at a medical office, never certainly at a family Dr starting to happen more at ObGyn

Dougie, First of all let me say this to you. You are actually one of the people on here that I follow. You are very smart, you actually speak pretty good English which is very impressive in it's own right. I have absolutely NO problem with you personally at all. I want you to please know and understand that. It was never my intention to offend you either. I greatly appreciate your round about apology and I extend the same to you. I know you did not try to offend me with your "too damn American" comment. But as I am sure you learned from many of the reactions that followed, we Americans are so proud. When 9/11 hit, my country drastically changed. While everyone loves their country and are proud of it, no matter what country they are from, when a major tragedy hits your country. When that attack was personal, not political, it hits you very hard. 9/11 made our citizens really stand up and take notice of who they are and where they live. It made Americans stand together as one, instead of divided. Suddenly people everywhere started flying flags again, we suddenly had and were giving the respect deserved to our military, the police, fire fighters and paramedics. It somewhat annoyed me that it took a tragedy for some of us to finally realize who they are and where they live. However, the bottom line is, we all took notice, we all came together again, united, for the love and respect of our country.

So I will apologize to you for probably overreacting to your comment, and I will for the others that were not at all nice and probably a little inappropriate. I gave you my word that I would take care of them and I did. Since 9/11 we Americans have become hyper sensitive and are always on the defense when it comes to our country. We really had not had an attack on our home soil for almost 200 years. We did not know what war really was. It was something we only saw on TV, and in the papers. So when it finally hit home, we didn't know how to psychologically handle it or deal with it. Many of us still haven't quite dealt with it all the way, and I will be 100 percent honest with you, I am one of those people. I can't go by ground 0 without crying, and I can't even think about it without crying either. I am still so angry, I don't mean a little bit angry, I mean white hot rage anger. When Bin Laden was killed by our boys there was a public announcement here. It went out over all the radios and TV programs were stopped and announcements were made. There were music concerts and Major league baseball games going on where those venues are filled with in upwards of 40,000 people. When the announcement hit all of those people at the same time cheered, cried, clapped, and screamed in excitement. It isn't a good thing, it isn't right, it isn't normal, or moral to cheer over the death of another human. It's disgusting quite frankly. But that is how much hatred my country had for that monster. And I also will admit, had I come face to face with him myself I would have liked nothing more than to have pulled the trigger myself.

You might be wondering why I just told you all of that. Well, I needed you to understand why and to what degree we Americans love our country, why some of us are so quick to react to anti-American comments. We are a very proud nation, we are still trying to cope and deal with that event. I would probably let someone talk crap about my family before I would let them talk crap about my country. See what I am saying. Most of us have such a strong love of country. It's who we are, and who we have become, which by the way, in my opinion is a great thing.

I can read through your post that you love your country as well, and you are proud of it. I love that. I think everyone should be proud of their country and who they are. It's important. I know that Portugal has to offer and what many of their accomplishments are, remember I was going to be a history teacher. I said those things to you to poke at you a bit so that you could maybe understand how your comment was a bit on the offensive side, lol. When you say something like, "you are to American", it's as bad as saying something like, "you are to black", or "you are such a Jew". See what I am saying there? Now I know Dougie that you didn't mean it the way it came out, so it's all good.

Now, one last thing I do have to address, and Dougie, I again really do not mean any offense, but I personally disagree with you on your feelings about real and not real medical folks. I greatly respect your knowledge and your passion for your art of medical play. I know from reading your posts that you are one of the most realistic play doctors here. That in itself is highly respectable. You have my respect. I don't say that very often just so you know. But like Liquid, we real professionals often times are here to help guide and direct the idiots on how to play safe and not kill themselves, lol. However, and again, I mean no disrespect here so please do not take it that way. But, as good as you are, and you could be the best play doctor on the planet, you are still just a play doctor and not a medical professional.

Again, it doesn't matter what country we professionals come from or what our level of education is. We may often disagree on some things but the bottom line is we are highly educated, we are professionals. Medicine is our career, our passion, and is who we are as people. We live sleep and eat medicine. We have dedicated our time, our lives, and our families time and lives to our profession. Some of us have paid in upwards of a half million dollars for our medical degrees. We have made real sacrifices to be who we are and what we are. And when I mean real sacrifices I don't mean, "well I want a new set of stirrups for my exam table but my car is due for an oil change and I can only afford to do one or the other". That's not a real sacrifice, lol. For some of us it's been more like "I can afford to buy some decent food, or I can afford to buy my books I have to have for school". Then we go and live off of hot dogs and Ramin noodles for a month. That's a sacrifice.

As I said earlier medical advancement are happening almost on a daily basis. We get medical magazines delivered to our houses monthly to keep us updated on the changes in medicine. I have to be honest with you, to insinuate that you with no formal medical training, no formal medical education could even possibly stand toe to toe with us on what is and what is not proper medical technique is highly offensive, with all due respect. I would never even think of getting behind the wheel of a 747 airplane and telling the pilot that I knew what I was doing because I saw it on youtube. Then when he wanted to point out to me why I really didn't know what I was doing and I continued to stand there and tell him he was wrong. That his education and his experience don't mean anything at all and I know what I am talking about, is utterly foolish, not to mention insulting and highly offensive.

Dougie, I know you didn't mean any offense. And there is nothing disgraceful about not knowing, or being wrong. That is how we learn and grow. I learn something everyday, or try to anyway. I know you well enough to know that you like to keep your medical play real, as real as absolutely possible. You take great pride in your realistic skills and knowledge as a play doctor. I commend you for that Dougie. I for one wasn't trying to argue with you, but perhaps trying to help and to educate you in proper medical technique. You advertise "real" physicals. If you want your play patients to keep coming back to you, you need to stay true to your advertisement.

I hope this makes sense to you Dougie, and please, it's not personal, and it's all good.

Mashie

Makes all sense dear Mashie and I hope to reply to you with more time,

till then accept a friendly hug and my best wishes that again I want to extend to many of you

( we followed here with great concern the 9/11 I saw live at my TV the second plane hiting the second tower what a terrible thing changed everybodies lifes, americans all ocidentals and other cultures I am sure, now is ISIS ... pure evil devil incarnated, in the end Good will win but for sure is a tough war)xxxDr D

Dougie, I LOVE and accept a hug from you and I hope you accept one, and a kiss as well from me. I can't tell you enough how much I greatly appreciate that you and your country felt the way you did when 9/11 happened. Sometimes people tend not to care when it isn't happening to them so thank you to you and your country.

When something like that happens I think we as a world need to embrace the good will in all of us, from all countries and band together to stop the evil among us.

By the way, you know we have a mutual friend don't you? He and his wife think the world of you. He has told me that you are a very good person and I know that to be true as well, you are.

Yes, the good will win, it may take a minute, but the good in this world will always prevail. That is my hope, my dream, and my greatest desire.

Jimmy, thank you for your kind words. I am very passionate about my patriotism. I know you are too. Thank you for that.

See, I have to say to everyone on here. There are times when members of this board do not agree on this or that. That is okay. If we all agreed on everything and viewed things the same way this forum would not be a fun place to come. We would be stagnant. We would not learn anything. There would never be anything to talk about because we would already know what everyone thought. How boring.

The beauty of most of the members on this site like Dr.D, myself for example is that we are intelligent people. We know and understand that we all have differences whether they are because of our sex, religion, our country, or even our opinions, educations, and our political preferences. We recognize these differences and embrace them. Yes we often debate the issues and how we see them. We grow from these, we learn from each other. While I can't speak for Dr.D, I can say that I really enjoy these sorts of debates, discussions if I may. It allows me to view other parts of the world through his eyes. People like us don't mind that we don't see eye to eye or we don't agree on things, we just want to know why they feel so strongly the way they do. It ultimately comes down to the things mentioned above, religion, country, education etc.

We are smart intelligent people who can debate the issues, learn from each other, listen to each other, and at the end of the day be happy that we learned something from that other person. There are no hard feelings, no ill thoughts directed at each other. It's not personal. Sometimes it can be, but intelligent people talk through it and figure out why. And intelligent people usually come to the realization and conclusion that usually misunderstandings due to miscommunication is the reason. But you have to be mature adults to begin with to be able to talk through your differences so that you can come out the other side of the debate, give each other a hug, and can look them in the eye and call them friend. This thread is a perfect example of what I am trying to convey here.

There have been some comments made by some who don't quite understand this concept. I am sorry that you don't, I feel bad for you because you are unable to see really the true value of this thread and how much all of us have learned about each other. It's only when children do the debating that it turns into arguing and feelings get hurt and anger shows it's ugly head. Intelligent adults like Dr.D and myself just don't act that way.

By the way, thank you Dr.D for the insightful conversation, intelligent debate, and giving me the opportunity to learn from you. I greatly appreciate you giving me that chance. I hope we can learn from each other again in the future sometime.

Mashie

Thank you dear Mashie for your words and your kiss that is hapilly acepted and returned.

Yes we do have a good friend in common I also consider him a very nice person so is her wife and so are you ! Thank you for being who you are.

This is also what Democracy is about: debate.

A good debate is many times not easy specially involving several parts or persons at same time. In democratic systems and States and countries or other organizations we vote we go to elections but that exercice makes no sense if not precedeed by a exhaustive and serious debate. Those sometimes get to less pleasant points and some less elegant things are spoken or told but in the end is in the name of freedom.

We had /have here a small one some parts were less elegant but is ok works like that , absolute no heart feelings of my part to nobody.

Let me just say that medical professionals here at the moment they comunicate they are so assume a very big responsability. I know it must not be easy but I say a medical professional member here if involves in such debate has the duty to be educational and serious without cause other non medical professional Drs afraid to speak or make them feel ridiculous or stupid or idiots ( even if they are wich will be allways subjective).

In this case I still feel that a member did a legitimate question ( specially if he is a steth fetichist) and in the following replies read RIDICULOUS in caps locks and next your message full of irony talking about auscultate the vagina ( and apologize me for mention this again): I just think he deserved better : I can imagine how he felt and I can imagine that if was me I would feel like no more debates involving medical professional membersand never start new threads .

I know it must be tough but we allways must try to be humble actually the more knowledge we have in one subject the more humble and educational we should be when transmiting that knowledge.

Personally I never felt ofended during this thread, one can call me an asshole and I don't get ofended because I know I am not but I also make lots lots of mistakes even at social relations many times like we all do we are not perfect thank God.

Again it was all in the name of a good debate and I apreciate that. let's just all of us try not to feel some people here excluded just saying.

I didn't like to read here a member saying real Drs are "horny bastards" simply because that's a total lie and all of us should know that. I don't care if a dr or nurse has a medical fetish I know that all are the more serious and dedicated possible in order to prevent treat conditions and save lifes or just improve people quality of life.

I am aware that concerning that statetment lots of irritation must be felted by most of members and a lot by medical professionals still the feedback must be educational if he or she persists may be another case.

There are big cultural diferences between continents and countries concerning for example physical exams and strategies or aproaches. That would give another good debate but this one already had a little of that.

Anyway is a previlege debate or just talk with people like you

My Love to you and all that partcipated in this thread

Dougie, are you sure you are not my brother from another mother? We are an awful lot alike you know? We have to be related. We think exactly the same, we may have different views, but our principles and morals are frighteningly similar.

Well, I can't wait to debate with you again my friend. It really has been a complete pleasure. Who knows, maybe the next time it will be you and I against the world, lol.

Mashie

Dear my Dear Mashie,

there is no possible combination of words that I can use to frame the fragrance and poetry from your own last words.

I admire you and feel so big empahty with you.

Thank you again for everything, for your insight and inspiration your inner light combined with your inteligence, sensibility, sense of humour and love..

" Our principles and morals are ( indeed ) frighteningly similar."

We together against the world would be like Captain Marvel with the Wonder Woman, a dynamic duo a dream team, lol.

Truth is if was many people like you the world would be much better and issues and situations worked, dealed and solved, by dialogue, debate, compromize and good will.

Is such a great pleasure and honour have you there to chat debate or just to know you are there.

Warm, warm regards my dear

your Dr. Douglas

Wonder Woman and and Captain Marvel, what a fantastic notion! I bet we would have some awesome kids, lol.

Mashie

Little Flying Dougies with the stubbornness of the father and the brains and beauty of the mother?

SHAZAM !

😃

You two lovelies have sure given me a giggle this week

Nikki