What Happened to Medical Schools in the United States

In recent years it seems that there is an influx of Foreign Educated Doctors into the United States. The Medical Schools in India now seem to supply the United States with Medical Doctors. The large groups affiliated with Hospitals employ an abundance of Graduates from off shore and third world Medical Schools. Have the Medical Schools in the United States shuttered their doors? Where are the Graduates of the Medical Schools in the United States going? Have we lost the expertise to educate people to practice Medicine.

Where there's opportunity, there's people seeking to take advantage. The US medical schools are at capacity and have been for years.

Maybe it has less to do with the ability to educate people to practice medicine, than with the cost of doing so. Some of the tuition fees I read about in the US are mind-boggling, very few people can afford them or risk taking out non-expirable student loans. Imagine trying out med school for a year or two and it doesn't work out. You're stuck with a huge student debt at outrageous interest rates that is never going to go away. That means you have to get med school right the first time.

In many other countries, most I would dare say, higher education and that includes medical studies, are if not free in total, at least so cheap as to be without financial hardship. I know that Belgian tuition costs for university studies is at around 600 euros a year, almost a symbolic sum just to remind students that everything comes at a cost. Other countries may be more or less expensive depending on national policies. A counterpart to virtually free higher education may be stringent entrance qualifications or a numerus clausus per year admitted. There was a time when Dutch med students flocked to Belgian universities because of a limit on the number of medical/dentistry students in the Netherlands.

So I would guess that Indian medical students can benefit from relatively cheap medical training costs in country, with the added benefit that English is one of the national languages in India, especially for the highly trained and in affluent families.

So in effect, this is a case in which you could very well say that foreign governments are subsidizing the med education of doctors for the US. Reversed foreign aid if you will.

AGRACIER Thanks for your insight, makes a lot of sense. The United States has priced its Medical Schools out of reach for most students. JDs4meds never said where all the at capacity Medical School Grads are going after racking up loan debts.

AGRACIER Thanks for your insight, makes a lot of sense. The United States has priced its Medical Schools out of reach for most students. JDs4meds never said where all the at capacity Medical School Grads are going after racking up loan debts.

What? Stop playing with your caps key and focus on cogent writing.

The United States has priced ALL post secondary education beyond the scope of most people. We've created a class of wage slaves with education, forced to work for high wages just to pay debt. Add to that the outrageous cost of malpractice insurance and low insurance reimbursement rates, we've created the corporate medicine monster. Med school graduates are swallowed whole by that monster.

So where are all the grads from medical schools in the United States that are at capacity going/ Do they go wall paper hanging after being swallowed up by the monster? Do the grads form medical schools in India come to the United States and push them aside? Its hard to find a Doctor these days that graduated from a medical school here in the United States.

Why does it matter to you who treats you, an asian or an american...

Its hard to find a Doctor these days that graduated from a medical school here in the United States.

Why does it matter to you weather who treats you, an asian or an american...

Of course it doesn't matter one bit. Though looked at in one way, the non American governments subsidizing higher education and then seeing some of its brightest and best minds leave their countries to work elsewhere is not very advantageous for those countries. It is their loss.

So where are all the grads from medical schools in the United States that are at capacity going/ Do they go wall paper hanging after being swallowed up by the monster? Do the grads form medical schools in India come to the United States and push them aside? Its hard to find a Doctor these days that graduated from a medical school here in the United States.

They go to work, just like most college graduates try to do. Why are there non US graduates working? Simple economics. There are more jobs than graduates. At capacity, the US can't put out enough doctors to fill the need. Add our ridiculous immigration laws and, there you go.

Of course it doesn't matter one bit. Though looked at in one way, the non American governments subsidizing higher education and then seeing some of its brightest and best minds leave their countries to work elsewhere is not very advantageous for those countries. It is their loss.

We have similar problem in india.

Government pay subsidy for medical students...and we end uo in usa/uk

Answer is simple for us.. we earn more money in usa/uk than in india.

Thanks Jds for saving me time. Remember also that any foreign grad has to complete a residency here before licensure. That makes them equivalent to our grads in training. Since I work with many such docs I've often noticed that they're more sensitive than natives. Please no xenophobia. They seem to be more inclined to return to their home countries doing temporary charity work which wins them big points in my book. One of the best neurosurgeons I've ever met is from Nigeria via Detroit.

Liquidsky you hit the point that I did not realize being that foreign educated doctors must do resident training here in the States before being licensed. You indicated that it brings them up to par with grads from Medical Schools in the United States. They do seem to out number our own grads however in large proportions, their visibility is much higher

It depends where one is. Foreign grads never outnumber domestic ones.

I haven't checked these numbers for a few years but I suspect they're not far off still. The U.S. graduates about18000 medical students per year. There's about 26000 post graduate training positions available. So that requires 8000 foreign residents just to fill all the residency positions. At least they're paying positions. Liquidsky might know better than I but I think the average residency pays $ 50-60,000 nowadays

50 K? I made 13 in 1976 hee hee.

Me too. Seemed like a fortune. Not that I ever had time to spend it

I'm 62, and I don't recall ever going to a foreign born and educated doctor in my life on a regular basis. At present I have a primary family practice doc, cardiologist, endocrinologist, ophthalmologist, podiatrist, dentist and chiropractor, and they all are born and educated in the US. I have once been referred to a Taiwan born and educated ophthalmologist specialist at a major teaching hospital, but I think that is the only foreign born and educated doc I've ever gone to. So I don't think that US born and educated docs are that hard to find, at least here in the Midwest.

Another thing to remember is the foreign medical graduates also have to take two exams in order to receive a US license and some have to be passed before residency: the USMLE (a 3 part exam) and English for foreign medical graduates. (ECFMG) I noticed that Seton Hall University is about to create a new medical school in New Jersey and while it won't be a huge increase, it will add to the number of US graduate doctors.

Quincy you've missed out if you haven't been taken care of by a foreign grad. My personal cardiologist is from the Khyber Pass in Pakistan. He is Pathan. Watching him do a cardiac cath is like watching Jaifetz play the violin. I wouldn't have anyone else touch me. He told me it was going to be normal for me and he was right. I'd have had him do a PCTA on me in a heartbeat as it were if it were needed.

Another thing to remember is the foreign medical graduates also have to take two exams in order to receive a US license

So in effect, non US physicians working in the US have shown their medical competence twice over, proving beyond doubt that they didn't get a med degree by a set of more or less lucky circumstances ... I'd think that is something to appreciate.

Quincy you've missed out if you haven't been taken care of by a foreign grad. My personal cardiologist is from the Khyber Pass in Pakistan. He is Pathan. Watching him do a cardiac cath is like watching Jaifetz play the violin.............

@liquidsky... How many on this board actually know who Jaifetz is, let alone having heard him? One of my all-time favorites, along with Perlman and Stern.

Are you talking about Heifitz? Without a doubt one of the best violinists that ever lived! Fantastic.

I'm so terribly sorry. In my advanced dementia I misspelled Heifetz's name. It of course was Jascha Heifetz. As far as I'm concerned he was the best. A Scottish Fantasy by Max Bruch. Every other soloist I've heard play this was screechy. Of course I've only heard him on records.

As for the OP, remember that most training occurs during residency. Medical school is only a prelim.

The State of Maine is primarily composed of foreign born and educated doctors and the remainder are DO's educated in the States, you have to really search out an MD who is from the States. Are DO's as competent as MD's?

DOs are as competent as MDs because they have to complete the same post graduate training i.e. a residency.

DOs are as competent as MDs because they have to complete the same post graduate training i.e. a residency.

I'm usually OK with most abbreviations, but what is a DO ?

Doctor of Osteopathy.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CC0QFjAHahUKEwjGp7_g2PHHAhUOmYgKHX10Cy8&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.m.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDoctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine&usg=AFQjCNEEz9a3dBm7Va6Zj1_mjOETJ5erdg&sig2=mej9lMsWoEsS0NANfiqFOg

Physical, I have to disagree with your assumption that mostly foreign-born physicians practice in Maine. Take a look at the websites for Maine physicians. Maine is a mix of both MDs and DOs, with a lot of the latter educated in the UNE Medical School.

Foreign born and foreign trained grads are located in every state of the union. They have the same potential to be highly competent or not as U.S. ones do. From my own personal and professional experience they often are refreshing and delightful. Donald Trump not withstanding. Who would want all "mighty white " doctors? Welcome to the 21st century.

Graduates with a DO from an accredited US school are treated the same for exams and residencies as a graduate with an MD degree from an accredited US school.