PEG (Polyethylene glycol) or CMC (Carboxymethyl cellulose) as an non-absorbable solution

Do you think it would be good idea to use PEG or CMC in a solution? It can't be absorbed by the body theoretically. Some laxatives are based on those compounds. I would use this for a longer and deeper enema to avoid water intoxication. Has anyone tried it? Any side-effects, downsides?

The PEG (Miralax) works fine.

You can use dilute to very concentrated solutions of PEG.

Be ready for several return trips to the toilet if you use concentrated solutions.

Well, Thanks. I'm not a chemist, can't imagine how it's not asborbed but if they say so, i will try it. Have you tried it?

I've taken it orally and the results were moving to say the least. Check out the following. A rescue enema? It might just be what the doctor ordered as it were. The idea is that it's not absorbed. It works by pulling water into the gut by being hyperosmolar.

http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s40014-012-0346-2.pdf

Haven't seen a rectal form of it.

Don't know if you want to risk it!

The PEG 3350 molecule is so large that absorption is impossible, consequently it can be regarded as chemically inert as far as the body is concerned. This is why it is possible to consume huge quantities without risk. Some Colonoscopy regiments involve the ingestion of nearly a pound of PEG 3350 in 4 liters of solution. While the PEG 3350 is chemically inert, it is capable of exerting considerable osmotic pressure, and that is what is responsible for laxative effects. It doesn't really make much difference whether the PEG 3350 gets to the colon from the bottom or down from the top.

There are a number of things that would probably work as well as a PEG enema, however PEG is probably preferred because it is inert. Sorbitol and Lactulose can also be given by enema, and also work by producing osmotic pressure. In colonoscopy both are problematic because they are fermented by they bowel flora, releasing hydrogen. There is at least a theoretical risk that the hydrogen could explode in the colon due to the electro-cautery used to remove polyps. Ionic compounds such as sodium phosphate/bi-phosphate or Magnesium Sulfate would also work, however both involve absorbable ions which can result in electrolyte disturbances which can be serious. The attractiveness of PEG 3350 is you can make the solutions isotonic with regard to the major ions in the body, so while large doses of PEG 3350 are given, there are essentially no changes in sodium, Potassium, Chloride or Bicarbonate ion concentrations in the body.

Conclusion: PEG 3350 given as a enema is as safe as PEG 3350 given orally. Generally if it safe to consume from the top, it is safe to administer from the bottom as well.

I'm not sure about CMC, but I have a tub of HPMC (hydroxypropyl methylcellulose) powder which I bought to mix up my own lubricant if I need larger quantities. I got it on Amazon where it's sold as a food additive. It's similar to the main ingredient in KY jelly, which is hydoxyethyl cellulose - the only difference is an extra methyl group on the side chain, which shouldn't affect the chemical properties that much, although the physical properties might be a bit different. HPMC is used as an ophthalmic lubricant as well as in food, so I figure if you can eat it and put it in your eyes (even during eye surgery), it's probably pretty safe as an enema or sex lube.

I tried taking an enema with about a 1% solution injected with a large syringe before - didn't feel that much different to water if I'm honest, a bit different on expelling but nothing special.

Tylose powder (CMC) is and edible glue for cake decorations but in a dilute solution it makes the same effects as a PEG solution. It is based on cellulose. Thank you for the detailed description, Mathew. It is really helpful.

Http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POLYETHYLENE-GLYCOL-PEG-6000-99-0-100G-/301708979539?hash=item463f41ad53

Would it be good for this use? It has bigger molar weight, i don't know the mixing ratio.

I would be very reluctant to use PEG 6000 from this source. The 'quality' is unknown, and it is not listed as safe for human consumption. PEG is polymerized Ethylene Glycol, the unpolymerized version is in fact a poison (anti-freeze). You want to use a product that is known safe for human consumption (food grade). In the USA that would be USP purity or higher, or clearly identified as a 'food grade' product. My problem isn't with the fact that it is PEG 6000, it is with unknowns associated with this particular product. It is 99%, the question is what is the other 1%? Stick with a product that is known safe for human consumption such as Miralax® (I believe in the UK there is equivalent product under the Dulcolax® brand name), or a USP grade PEG product.

I will stick to the Epsom salt and soapsuds I have always used.

As others, I would really advise against using anything not considered food- or medical-grade, because of the allowed rates of trace chemicals and processing agents.

Lisak said

Remember that polyethylene glycol is essentially car anti-freeze or airplane de-icing compound. it is considered toxic in that context. I will stick to the Epsom salt and soapsuds I have always used.

NO NO NO

Nobody is talking about Prestone antifreeze.

PEG 3350, [Miralax or similar] polyethylene glycol is NOT antifreeze.

Antifreeze is ETHYLENE glycol.

Go back and re-read Mattheww's post:

The PEG 3350 molecule is so large that absorption is impossible, consequently it can be regarded as chemically inert as far as the body is concerned. This is why it is possible to consume huge quantities without risk. Some Colonoscopy regiments involve the ingestion of nearly a pound of PEG 3350 in 4 liters of solution. While the PEG 3350 is chemically inert, it is capable of exerting considerable osmotic pressure, and that is what is responsible for laxative effects. It doesn't really make much difference whether the PEG 3350 gets to the colon from the bottom or down from the top.

--snip--

Conclusion: PEG 3350 given as a enema is as safe as PEG 3350 given orally. Generally if it safe to consume from the top, it is safe to administer from the bottom as well.

Believe you would be much smarter to just stay with the basics as Susie recommends!

Lisa K s not quite as far off base as some of you seem to think.

Ethylene Glycol is anti-freeze. Polyethylene glycol is a polymerized version, where the number such as 3350 represents the average molecular weight of the PEG molecules. The rub is that to make Polyethylene Glycol you need to start with Ethylene Glycol. The Polymerization process often leaves behinds small amounts of the un-polymerized product, and in fact in a chemical assay of Polyethylene Glycol, it is common to find very small amounts of the un-polymerized chemical.

This is why I am uncomfortable with a product that is 99% PEG, you don't know what the other 1% is unless an assay is provided with the product. The USP standard calls off maximum permissible amounts of impurities as well as what they are permitted to be. Any product that meets the USP standard or better (and is labeled Food Grade), will have at most very very small amounts of the un polymerized chemical. Ethylene Glycol is not like Cyanide where tiny amounts can kill you, It actually takes a pretty substantial dose to kill someone.

LD50 for Ethylene glycol is about 1.5 grams/Kilo, so the ingestion of even a few grams of Ethylene Glycol by a healthy 50 Kg adult is unlikely to be harmful. So as long as Ethylene Glycol impurity levels in the PEG product remains on the order of .1% of below, the is no hazard. However if you are buying PEG from chemical suppliers, beware that most will have a disclaimer that the product is not to be used for drugs, or human consumption. This is a warning that the impurities may in fact be toxic, (and may be a lot more toxic than ethylene glycol, i.e. heavy metals).

So my advice is stick to sources that your know provide a product that is safe for human consumption such as Miralax® and its competitors. As long as you do, the risk of ethylene glycol poisoning is nil.

Mattheww50: Thanks for this most detailed information.

(Incidentally, in France, the producers of silicone implants have been prosecuted for using industrial silicone instead of medical-grade silicone. Apparently, if the implants leak, the industrial silicone contains traces of things that can create hazards.)

Mattheww50 : In my post, I did say Miralax or similar, which is an OTC drug, not technical grade PEG 3350.

No one needs to be concerned about ethylene glycol poisoning from Miralax or similar brands.

A typical Miralax dose is 17 grams, which is roughly a one ounce coffee measure.