Why is society afraid of public nudity

You get the green ones and when they're on sale. It is rather stupid and simpleminded. My fav is fireworks. I'm a closet pyro.

Interesting. I have made my own pyro devices in the past for use in the entertainment industry.

This is due to cultural perception and religious values as they change over time. Nudity was once equated with innocence and purity in ye olde days and then sometime later in the 18th century people wore more fashion and invented new types of clothes, then it became a different matter altogether.

I am confused as to what pryros have to do with nudity.

It seems that religion has a lot to due with this.

In Egypt there are pictures of naked people at parties, and children did not wear clothes until nudity. In Japan communion bathing has only just started coming back in to fashion. Women there used to work in the field topless, but to appease McCarthy this practice was stopped.

In Europe although a religious place, they seem to have put two fingers up to the religious view that nudity is a sin (was not Adam & Eve nude). Scandinavia and Germany have communal saunas and most of Europe have topless if not nudist beaches.

Europeans have a different attitude to nudity. If you go to the doctors and wait for a gown to be offered, you could be waiting for a long time.

In Europe although a religious place, they seem to have put two fingers up to the religious view that nudity is a sin (was not Adam & Eve nude). Scandinavia and Germany have communal saunas and most of Europe have topless if not nudist beaches.

Europeans have a different attitude to nudity. If you go to the doctors and wait for a gown to be offered, you could be waiting for a long time.

Euhhh ... not to contradict but Europe is not a religious place. True we have lots of churches per square km, but that is only a reflection of historical religiosity. And of course there are still many religious people here - varying from country to country - with of course Muslim immigrants being the most religious of all. But for all their numbers, as a group they count for little as being part of mainstream European mores and customs and culture.

Compared to the US, we are as good as agnostics or atheists in a general sense. Meaning that religion plays virtually no role in people's lives except for special occasions like marriages/funerals/baptisms. In Belgium where I live church attendance is accepted as being around 5-7% of the population. Not a very whopping score and comparable to most of the rest of Western Europe. I doubt anyone has any inkling of politicians religious affiliations while in the US you couldn't get elected as dogcatcher without mentioning God in every other sentence.

What most of Europe doesn't have though is the weather for (outdoor) nudism. You have to be a hardy soul to brave the chill of a beach on the Baltic, even in summer. Spain is more suited to nudism, but aside from the tourist beaches on the Mediterranean costas, you won't find a topless beach or pool once you get 25km away from the coast. I know, I've been going there since 1983. Still haven't found a single one inland - and believe me I've looked ... ha ha.

Even Belgium forbade topless public beaches until well into my adult years - long past when it would have made much difference for my sightseeing. Previously, Belgians always had to go to the Netherlands for that, or drive to the Med in France.

And not to be a spoil sport, but with virtually all doctors consults I've been to here, doctors do not ask their patients to undress to any degree routinely. There is no time for undressing, and certainly not undressing completely. You are usually asked to hike up or lower garments, perhaps remove one or two if strictly necessary. But you hardly ever need undress (some hospital settings excepted).

But it is so that nudity, as a concept, does not draw the ire and disapproval of Europeans in general. Nude statues and paintings are no big deal. In my city there are huge Rubens paintings over the altar of the cathedral full of nudes - often to the amazement of American tourists. Nude statues abound. France especially seems to be enamored of bare breasted Marianne, but all in all it's a cultural thing.

Hi agracier.

I am afraid that I cannot agree with you that European is not a religious place. According to the latest Gallop poll, the most religious place is Estonia where 84% believe in god, and your own country rates at 61% and I think the Vatican have one of two followers.

As for medical exams, no dr asked me to strip every time I went to them, but when I had my annual employment physical, as everything had to be tested, all clothes had to be removed.

Saying one believes in (a) God is not the same as being religious. It is often just the expression of a vague feeling or sentiment. Occasionally entering a church for socially expected occasions is also not an indicator of being religious.

Most sociological studies on religiosity use regular church attendance as a barometer, as it indicates commitment and seriousness. When regular church attendance is measured, the results are vastly different. Results will vary from one study to the next with a margin of error, but with regular church attendance around 5-7% in Belgium, around 12% in France, 16% in the Netherlands, between 3-5% in Denmark, Norway, Finland & Sweden, 12% in the UK, 11% in the Czech Republic, even with the relatively high of 21% in Spain (Isabella and Ferdinand are turning in their graves surely 😃 ), none of these numbers indicates much in the way of the inhabitants of these nations being religious in any overwhelming way.

And keep in mind that a percentage of the attendance in these countries also counts Muslim immigrants. That group will invariably drive up percentages.

I don't normally use my academic degree in arguments, but I cut my sociological teeth on comparative religious attendance studies. Our dean and docent made it a major subject as he had just completed a study on the matter in one Belgian city - Gent - and had already back in the 1970s come to the 'alarming' conclusion of a huge decrease in religious attendance. This back before there were any meaningful numbers of Muslim immigrants really. The attendance percentages have continued to drop since. And so have the number of churches being desacralized and closed and used for other purposes.

Another interesting indicator of religiosity is the percentage of the population that never, even occasionally for social occasions, enters a church at all. Czech Rep - 60% never, Belgium, UK, France - 50-60% never, Spain, Netherlands - 40-50% never ... those are telling statistics.

-------------------------

Employment exams are quite different from a doctors consult. Doctors consults are usually set up to last about 15min on average. Employment exams much longer. So these do indeed have different protocols.

My experience with employment exams in Belgium? I've had two. The first was done by a bored out his skull company doctor who had nothing much to do all day, back in the mid 1970s. That one was down to underwear - no gown though, that's certainly correct.

My second was done in the 2000s and it was a joke - in and out in less than 15 minutes with not even a shirt taken off.

Time must surely have vastly increased in value in the intervening 40 years, cause the doctor didn't have much of it. ... 😃 😃 😃

Calling on your experience aglacier, do you know the percentage the USA whom are religious, and putting the question out to all, why should being religious prevent you from being a nudist or find it some form of sin.

It is easy to cherry pick any book and I am sure there are things in the bible that say that nudity is a sin, but these are from a long list I found on the web that contradict it

You shall make for them linen undergarments to cover their naked flesh. They shall reach from the hips to the thighs; (sounds like a mini skirt)

Exodus 28:42

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Genesis 2:25

So the next question is why are Americans more shy about nudity than Europe. They cannot all be religious zealots.

I think most studies on regular religious attendance put the percentage in the US at around 40 to 50% of the population. It may not seem that much, but these percentages should be compared to similar numbers in other countries.

Then, using Belgium for instance, you'd get anywhere up to a 500 to 700% increase of regular religious attendance in the US. That is a very significant difference indeed.

So the next question is why are Americans more shy about nudity than Europe. They cannot all be religious zealots.

Maybe there are different kinds of nudity to ponder. Nudity in art or statuary isn't that much of an issue here in Europe. Maybe because there is a more direct link to and many remnants from Classical Roman Antiquity in Europe. Their statues and buildings have been around for some 2 millennia and become just part of the landscape so to speak. From the Renaissance on, Roman and Hellenic style nudity in art became commonplace in religious art. Old churches here abound with that sort of art - think Raphael, Michelangelo etc, so do public spaces with nude statuary or public buildings with nude representations of abstract ideas like Justice, Prosperity, Science, Freedom (bare-breasted Marianne of the French Republic is a prime example in the political sphere). Therefore you might say there is a more or less general subliminal awareness that nudity does not automatically equate with sexuality or sin. Just as in Roman times, nudity in art forms did not equate with general public nudity (if anything Romans could be quite the prudes), the same awareness still exists in Europe. In any case to a greater degree than in the US.

There is always the explanation that the US was colonized and populated by Puritans and their descendents. It shouldn't be forgotten these people were very strict in their interpretation of religion and often considered representation of the human form as idolatry, much like Muslims still do today. Maybe not to the same degree, but still more restrictive. Radical protestants in the 16th centuries were responsible for waves of vandalism and destruction of all forms of art in churches and public spaces. In my city (and many others in the Low Countries) in 1566 Protestants went on a rampage of burning and smashing statutes and paintings on account of their sinful nature. Many of these radicals later left for the United Provinces or Great Britain and then on to the New World, where they could found their unsullied shining city on a hill, free of sin and the temptations of sex and the human form one presumes.

I don't think North American society is afraid of public nudity but I do think that the politicians try to control it... Imagine yourself with the power to change federal laws.... Would you make full on public nudity legal? Think of all the people who would parade up and down the streets enforcing their "right". I'm not saying you shouldn't, I'm just saying that there are times to indulge in this right just like there are times NOT to indulge in it.

Currently, public nudity is such an infinitesimally small violation that it serves as a deterrent to keep the freaks and idiots from going overboard and to that I say "fine". Nudity these days is everywhere and if people want to explore it in the comfort of their own homes then great but in my opinion, behind closed doors is where it should stay. I don't need to see everyone's junk just like no one needs to see mine. There are nudist clubs, beaches and colonies for that.

I don't think North American society is afraid of public nudity but I do think that the politicians try to control it... Imagine yourself with the power to change federal laws.... Would you make full on public nudity legal? Think of all the people who would parade up and down the streets enforcing their "right".

Just so no one has the wrong ideas, nowhere in Europe, except on designated and clearly posted areas, is public nudity allowed. Even going topless in public, except once again at designated areas - beaches mainly and perhaps in some parks in some countries - is not allowed. You will be, if not formally arrested, certainly fined for doing so. That is, if police or municipal guardians or other mandated agents catch you of course.

Yes, you can find tons of photos of girls or men walking naked in the streets, in a café, a restaurant or elsewhere in public. But these are instances where if caught, the nude persons would have risked a fine. There's a tolerance on the part of people for this, it's always fun to see a pretty naked lady on the street, but it's still against laws, city ordinances or whatever. And I've yet to be a witness either for anyone's nude walk ... 😢 so it's not all that common.

About North America - I suppose politicians have the last say, but they just pander to their constituents. And the constituents who are most fanatical about certain issues are often religious, they come out to vote in droves and so influence politics indirectly.

My slate on this debate is that whilst Europe may not allow you to walk around naked all day in public in all my travels I have found that they are far more tolerate than the rest of the world when it comes to nudity. I found that even Russia was more liberal than the USA.

When I was working all around the world in the 60's; 70's and 80's I always took my family (wife & 2 daughters) with me, as I could be in a country for up to a year. If the weather was warmish then we became a nudist family and we used to hire an housekeeper/nanny in every country we stayed in and we explained at the interview that we were naturalists so we would often not wear clothes. In Europe we had no problems, in the USA we went through 3 nannies in 2 weeks because they found our nudity offensive. Australia/NZ was great as it was so warm anyway. In the strict religious countries we did not even explore hiring anyone as it was too problematical.

Perhaps the biggest surprise was when we were in the Far East and we had a live in maid called Mejay. After a while of seeing us nude, she slowly ventured in to naturalism and started walking around in underwear, then topless, then completely nude. The sad thing was that she was never allowed to tell her secret to anyone outside of the house.

I find this departure from the conversation to be inappropriate and offensive. Calling people names because their preferences are different than yours is uncalled for. Keep your extremist opinions to yourself.

The topic is public nudity, and I removed posts that had deviated from that and were starting an argument. Please stay on topic and avoid name calling.

I think the trouble is that society sends out mixed messages.

I was watching a film about Germany in the 30's and in the street they showed women walking about with skirts way below their knees, and yet in something to do with an health and fitness thing, they showed the women in one piece swim suits showing as much leg and I do and then doing sports in just a tennis top, very short tennis skirt, bare legs and feet.

I think the trouble is that society sends out mixed messages.

I was watching a film about Germany in the 30's and in the street they showed women walking about with skirts way below their knees, and yet in something to do with an health and fitness thing, they showed the women in one piece swim suits showing as much leg and I do and then doing sports in just a tennis top, very short tennis skirt, bare legs and feet.

It's even more complicated. Our society sends out mixed messages - very skimpy beach and evening wear mixed with a very conservative, religion based attitude towards sexuality. Mix in the more liberal attitudes in the bigger cities (topless OK in NY and San Francisco) and international societal variations, and people just get confused. Remember that most Americans were brought up to believe that nudity is sexual. Many European cultures weren't raised that way and there's little fear of nudity there. Tropical tribal people who were raised without clothing aren't afraid of nudity at all.

Jds4med, I have never found toplessness in NYC to be acceptable for either sex on the street. Never, not once. Now, in the free republic of San Francisco I have no idea of what might be unacceptable on the street.

Many European cultures weren't raised that way and there's little fear of nudity there.

It's a bit more complicated really. Don't try walking around topless or heaven forbid nude in Belgium or you are certain to be fined. Then again, wearing a hijab isn't appreciated either by many here ... ha ha.

I think the main point of difference might be in the artistic representation of nudity in the public space. No one that I have ever met or talked to or discussed with or been taught about in school, has any trouble with nude statues or paintings or the occasional nude advertising. Recent immigrants have trouble with this sometimes, but on the whole no one cares about naked saints in churches or statues with male (uncircumcised!) penises in a town square.

But as for emulating them for real? Walking around nude or topless? Still a no-no. Maybe climate has a lot to do with it. Only a fool would be a nudist on any but a few weeks of summer up north. In Mediterranean climates it's more congenial to nudity, but then those cultures (except for tourist areas) are usually the relatively more prudish compared to northern European countries. That's probably due to being closer to Roman cultural ideas about nudity and the place of women in public, as well as influences from the proximity of Islamic cultures in North Africa ...

The exception and what most people think about when speaking of European notions about nudity are the Scandinavian countries and Germany. They are more open about it, though a puritanical streak runs through their societies nowadays nonetheless. The sauna thing up north and the nudity that goes with it is just probably a way of coping against winter depression and from going absolutely bonkers otherwise.

Maybe it might be better to say that here in Europe, most people are not as obsessed with nudity or not. It's not that much of an issue.

Remember that most Americans were brought up to believe that nudity is sexual.

Who is it that teaches this, is it in church, parents or school?

Expanding this further, then why in the 40's were most of the leading ladies from the states (and indeed the general public) who were bought up to believe that showing too much flesh was a sin(?), shown in one piece swim suits thus showing completely bare legs, but not daring to show so much leg on the street.

Also what intrigues me is how feet have escaped the censors. They are on display in all cultures, and yet if you look at the film posters of the era that I have been talking about, the posters would show the leading lady barefoot. Indeed when I use to be a model, if they wanted someone to look sexy it was bare feet in strappy shoes, and for the "the girl next door look", I just had to be photographed walking around barefoot.

Walking around now I see that there are many female belly buttons are on display. When did society make the belly button a sexual thing or even to be displayed.

And as for going topless in NY, When I was first over there, I happened to turn be there when they were having a topless walk (which I was told was legal) and I joined in. Now If I can I arrange it for me to be there on business at the same time I do.

For the life of me I cannot understand why some people are so screamish about the human body. Men can walk around topless, so why not women after all before the war the women in Japan used to toil in the fields topless and no one ever saw anything wrong with that.

Would it be possible that the society is afraid of public nudity because society is afraid of public copulation?

In spite of all the denials, religion does influence politics! Many felt that the church was powerless to enforce strict moral behavior, so they entered politics to pass laws to accomplish this. But in doing this, they have created a double standard that exists to this day. Women are held to much higher standards than men. Because I am an old fart, my views have changed with age. A woman in a sexy outfit looks hot to me, but to see that same woman totally naked, my arousal level diminishes somewhat, as the old joke goes "if you've seen one, you've seen them all". I'm starting to ramble so it's time to take my meds! LOL

Who is it that teaches this, is it in church, parents or school?

It's probably a matrix of influences that teaches us these things, how we become socialized and adopt the mores and customs of our human surroundings. For some religion may be more important an influence, for others it may be more of a familial thing ... there are so many subgroups and therefore subcultures in any given country that it's possible to find a wide variety of ideas on the subject of nudity all influenced and determined by a mix of factors. I bet for instance, if you attend a Bible College (because they are cheap) you will become influenced to some degree by their religious tenets in spite of everything.

There's one rather large and important group you forgot to include, for the US at least: the military. While locker room and showering nudity is no big deal given the exigencies of being prepared for operations in the field, I have the impression that family life in the military is otherwise somewhat conservative with lots of Christian proselytizing going on.

On a concrete instance, friends of ours had an American exchange student, an 18 year old 'army brat' as they apparently call children of lifers in the military. She was quite an odd one to tell the truth. I took her on some tours and outings and in museums for instance she was truly appalled and shocked by some of the otherwise dull and boring paintings containing nudes by painters like Rubens. Her comment was: 'would you want your 4 year old brother to see THOSE?' using a voice as if I had shown her my porn collection. And these are the kind of paintings that are hung in churches and cathedrals by the way - think of God pointing at Adam's prick in the Sistine Chapel 😃 . She also absolutely and vehemently refused to pass by the Brussels statue of Manneken Piss, the 17th century statue of a young boy urinating in a fountain. She didn't want to even glance at it, but must have known what it was anyway ... ha ha. If you think that's something to ashamed and outraged about, well then not much hope in becoming educated and evolving on matters of nudity ...

I will never figure it out but then I cannot work out why it is ok to be outside in a bikini but not underwear. Its not as perverted as it may seem, but BA (before accident), I used to do a lot of hiking and if it was hot I would take my top off so I was in my bra or sunbath in my underwear. Nothing to special, just a plain old one but people would sometimes tell me to cover up or they looked away.

Perhaps the reason for this rule may be that in the case that a man will meet an attractive wife or a women his penis will have invetably an erection, this as the sign of an invitation for an immediate copulation - and exactly this is a taboo in our society, for every woman knows upon the producer of every of her children, but no man knows upon this.

I will never figure it out but then I cannot work out why it is ok to be outside in a bikini but not underwear.

Articles of underwear are of a different design and as such are immediately recognizable in any particular society because of a sort of process of general socialization through osmosis. We see ads for this type of garment or another, see it in movies or on TV and most especially, our parents, family and teachers teach us this lesson. This garment is to be used for this and this only and the other for that and that only.

You might also say it is a very intricate and complicated process of nothing more than: monkey see, monkey do. In Classical Antiquity men wore skirts (tunics, but who's quibbling?), in the Middle East men wear garments that look like pajamas in public.

It's all not much more than an unspoken collective acceptance.

I don't think society is afraid of nudity. I think some immature and insecure people are afraid of public nudity. Their insecurity makes them fear the inevitable comparisons that can and will be made if everything shows. If you are looking for a mate, you don't want him or her to be so readily able to compare you the others on the market. If you already have a mate, the same probably holds true, no buyers remorse. I know this sounds crass, but that's how it works for the rest of the animal world.

I go along with the thoughts here that it is our counties religious up bring that made society scared of nudity and I have never worked out why. What is wrong with being naked in front of other people. When I was at college, we had co-ed showers and I was nude in front of guys all the time, but I was never tempted to shag them.

When I went to Japan and Scandinavia on business I was naked in front of all the other naked people in the steam or bath houses, no one threw their selves on to me.

Is it that we want to be nude publicly, but scared of the repercussions after all you can be arrested. Something I was threaten with a few years ago when I took part in a topless protest when I was at college. Regardless of who saw me, what was wrong with seeing my boobs, was society going to become corrupted. Well firstly there is not much to corrupt society with and secondly what harm were we doing. It certainly turned a lot of mens and a few women's heads.

What confuses me the most is my sister and her attitude to nudity considering we were bought up the same.

Care to elaborate Mazzie

Well it will probably sound silly.

When it is an hot day, I never dress at home until I have to go out. One day my sister made an unexpected visit to my new apartment.

I did not hear the door bell and she let herself in with her key, so there I was stood naked in front of my sister, BIL, nephew, niece. I thought nothing of it other than my BIL was having all his Christmases come at once. She dragged me into my bedroom and said she had never been embarrassed and to get dressed as she did not want to have her kids see me like that. We had a big row, when her kids came in not wearing anything, grabbed my hand and lead me to the bathroom and they insisted that I bath with them. It worked out that that was what they did with their parents, so in their eyes, nudity = bathing so I cannot see the point as to why my sister went off on one.

No one had not seen anything they had seen before because we are identical twins!.

Well it will probably sound silly.

No one had not seen anything they had seen before because we are identical twins!.

Doesn't sound silly at all. I think it sounds hilarious. It's almost a made for a sitcom situation ... 😃

Interesting that you are identical twins but with a different approach to some things. I guess it's on these points that genetic identity counts for less ...

Btw - what is a BIL ? Must be another recent abbreviation ... I keep getting Banque Internationale à Luxembourg when I Google it .. clearly not correct ... ha ha