Mixed feelings about my wife's real exam by a male ob-gyn. Anyone else?

I'm having a hard time understanding my feelings, as well as my wife's feelings, concerning her recent breast/pelvic exam. The thought of another man examining her nude has always made me angry, and because of this she has gone to a female doctor infrequently. I have never been jealous or possessive of my wife, and I have never been upset by what she wears, by her having male friends, or by her taking business trips. I trust my wife completely, as she has strong family values, and she is somewhat religious. My wife is educated, middle age, of average height/weight, with beautiful eyes, a very pretty face, long dark hair, medium/large breasts, a full/round/firm butt, and she dresses conservative but sexy. I think some of my feelings come from the fact that I think she is the most beautiful woman in the world, and I believe that any male doctor that saw her would be turned on, even if they didn't show it. She told me that she saw several male doctors before we met, and that although it was uncomfortable, she said that it didn't bother her if a doctor was male. The most important thing to her is that the doctor is professional, friendly, polite, and competent, not whether they are male or female. She believes that male doctors can turn sexual urges on and off, and that when they are doing exams they are completely professional. She also told me that she believes male ob-gyns see so many women during a day, that it is no big deal to them. I asked her if that was true, then how to they get turned on when they go home and see their wives?

For most of our relationship we didn't have to deal with the issue, as she saw her female doctor. Recently we had a situation where she might have to see a male specialist in the near future. I wanted to deal with the problem so that if she had to see a male doctor, I could be there for her rather than have a meltdown. We tried to think of ways to overcome my fear, and I suggested we pick a random male doctor, and that I go in the room with her during the exam. I told her that it would force me to confront my feelings and remain calm. She immediately told me that there was no way I would be allowed in the exam room, and that it would make both her and the doctor feel uncomfortable. I next asked if she could leave her cell phone camera on so that I could see generally what happened, in order to watch it later and deal with the reality of a male doctor examining her. She agreed and made an appointment, but she didn't tell me the date, as she didn't want to stress me out.

I didn't know she was going the next day, but the night before the exam I trimmed her pubic hair down to stubble and painted her toenails for her (I can't remember if she asked me to do it, or I asked her). She also had a dark tan line from her swimsuit over the summer. She went to the exam the next day, and when she got home she told me that she just got back from seeing a male ob-gyn. The weird part about it was that we ended up having sex an hour or two later, and we had the best sex in our relationship (we both had very long orgasms at the same time, which is very rare for us). I'm not sure if it was a stress relief for both of us, or if we were both somehow turned on by the experience.

I later watched the video, and had some interesting observations. My wife positioned the camera so that you could not see her breasts or vagina at all during the exam, and you could only see the doctor's back. I would never share the video in order to protect everyone's privacy, and we only did it so that I could deal with the problem of me getting angry. My wife told me that she thought the doctor was very friendly and professional, that he was married with kids, and that she didn't think he was physically attractive. She said that she talked to the doctor for about 30-40 minutes prior to him telling her to go into the exam room, get undressed, and put on a gown. The doctor asked her if she wanted a chaperone nurse, and she declined. She later told me that it would be more uncomfortable having another person in the room regardless if it was a male or female.

The following is a synopsis of what the exam was like: My wife got completely undressed and put on a mid-thigh length cloth gown that opens in the front. She came from work, so she had been wearing a long skirt without stockings and a blouse. She sat on the table and waited for the doctor to come in. After he entered, they went over a few routine questions before he listened to her heart. He had her lie back on the table and he banged on her stomach a few times. He then did a breast exam while she was lying back. He uncovered each breast individually, and it took about 30 seconds each breast. He then put the stirrups out and told her to put her feet in them. He turned on a powerful light that was between her legs. He didn't do an external exam; he just put the speculum in right away and started doing swabs. It took about 1 minute and 30 seconds to do the swabs, after which he did a bimanual exam which took about 10-15 seconds. He didn't do any recto-vaginal exam.

I thought the actual exam would have been a lot worse (I read somewhere else that they make the woman put the gown around their waist and raise their hands above their head during the breast exam, that they do an external exam of the vagina for a minute, that they do a recto-vaginal exam, etc). It appears the doctor did what he had to do without being excessive.

The most difficult part to deal with was seeing my wife's face and hearing the conversation during the exam. They were engaged in light conversation throughout the whole exam, and it seemed like they had a genuine rapport, even though he was a complete stranger. My wife didn't seem uncomfortable or stressed out, and she actually smiled several times during the exam. I know my wife, and it looked like a genuine smile, almost like she was very happy. Her biggest smile was when the doctor told her to put her feet in the stirrups. She was lying flat on her back when she put her feet in the stirrups, and she began to slide down to the end of the table. She then lifted up her head as she was sliding down and had this huge smile on her face for several seconds. I really didn't want to confront her about it later, because I didn’t want to make her uncomfortable. I did ask her why she seemed so relaxed, and she told me that she felt a sense of relief, and that she believed by going through with the exam it would help me.

It was also difficult knowing that my wife took off all her clothes for a complete stranger, who then looked at and felt her full breasts with ungloved hands, looked at her shaved vagina and rectum up close with a spotlight, opened her vagina up with a speculum, and then put his gloved fingers inside of her. My wife is like most women in that we had sex a long time before she let me look at her up close with the lights on, yet she had no problem letting a stranger look at her for "medical" reasons. I guess if it does turn me on, it's because I'm thinking about it from the doctor's perspective: He is able to talk to an educated, respectable, and beautiful middle aged woman, and 20 minutes later he can feel her and see her completely naked while she smiles at him. I would never want my wife to have sex with another man, and I don’t get real turned on by the gyno porn on the internet, however the thought of my wife being examined bothers me, yet it somehow excites me if I think about it from the doctor’s perspective.

My wife told me that the important thing was that the doctor was personable and that he made her feel comfortable. She said that to her, a rude female doctor is worse than a friendly male doctor. She said that the conversation they had was genuine and made her feel comfortable and relaxed. She also said that she didn't feel embarrassed because of the way the doctor interacted with her. She told me that it's possible to tell if a doctor thinks you are attractive by the way he looks at you. She explained that after the doctor first removed her gown for the breast exam, there was a subconscious "acknowledgement" between the two of them. It wasn't like the doctor did or said anything inappropriate; it was just that he continued to respond to her in a positive manner. She told me that for her this wasn't anything sexual; it was just that it made her feel good about herself. She explained that her smile was genuine because they were having a good conversation, and because he made her feel good about herself.

I would honestly have wanted her to react in whatever way was natural for her. I wouldn't have wanted her to be quiet or act mad during the exam in order to make me feel better, as I would rather know the truth even if it hurts. I think that if I went in the exam room with her it would have changed the dynamics of how my wife and the doctor interacted, so I am glad I got to see both of their natural reactions.

I’m sorry for the long post… My questions are: Is it possible that my wife was subconsciously turned on during the exam (by having another man see her naked and “accept” her)? Is it possible that the doctor was turned on during the exam and was able to suppress his feelings and be professional? If he was turned on, why didn't he do an external exam, or have her sit and raise her arms over her head during the breast exam (my wife said that it wouldn't have been unusual if he did)? Is there anyone else who has these dual feelings, where your wife seeing a male doctor bothers you, but at the same time somehow turns you on? Is there anyone else whose wife won’t admit to liking an exam, but isn’t bothered by it either? Is the mutual great sex after the exam due to stress relief or something else?

I'm going to refrain from making a comment until a few other people reply and more information is given.

Ha - Ha.... when I started reading this I thought "hmmmm, I wonder how Switchablesusie is going to reply"!!!

I too will be back to hear the comments.

In short Osborn, I think you have spent way too much time worrying about something that every couple in the world has to deal with. I would suggest that your relationship with your wife is sound and that like many others in here you should interact with your wife around her examinations and enjoy the sex that can follow her exam when she returns home!

Why refrain? I just wanted to share my story, and point out that not everyone is black/white about gyn exams, there is a gray area.

I wanted to add that since then, my wife won't go see a male ob-gyn again, as she wants to stay with a female doctor that we were both previously happy with. I agreed, but I told her that if she went to a male doctor one more time for a necessary yearly exam, it would help me sort out my feelings and get used to the idea of another male seeing her naked. I also wanted to see if we could recreate the same sexual experience after the exam, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen now. I told her how I felt, and she listened, but never responded. In the past she told me that seeing a male doctor didn't bother her any more than a female, but for whatever reason she wants to leave things as they are now, and I respect her feelings.

I thought about it for a while and concluded that if she went to 3-4 different male doctors for gyn exams over a short period of time, and I was able to somehow see the exams, I would at that point be over any feelings of anger or jealousy. After a certain number of doctors saw her naked, in my mind I would think the damage is done, and another male doctor seeing her naked after that would be no big deal. I would also see that the doctors only do what is necessary during the exam, and that the doctors may be aroused and think my wife is beautiful, but they are able to be professional and do their jobs. Making appointments and going to 3-4 (20) minute gyn exams is not all that difficult, and the benefit would really outweigh the cost, there is just some psychological barrier now where my wife just shut down and won't talk about it.

I also wanted to add that I previously bought a couple of different kinds of speculums, as I wanted to see what a doctor sees during the exam. While we were having sex one time, I asked her if I could put one in just to see what it looked like, and she agreed. After that time I asked her if I could use one on her once in a while, and she again agreed. One time I was giving her oral while I had a speculum was in her (I think it was a large Collins speculum opened up pretty far), and she had an intense orgasm. Then one time she told me that she really wasn't up for using a speculum all the time, even though I only used it once in a while, so I got the hint and never used them again. Since then, she has never asked "do you want to use a speculum on me", so I assume it was something she didn't like. This has me confused because she did have an orgasm with a speculum in her one time. I know it's not the best feeling in the world for a woman, but if a speculum is used gently and in combination with oral sex and caressing, it can't be that much worse than a dildo.

My wife never liked role playing at all, as she said it was silly to her. I did manage to do a pretend gyn exam on her one time, as I told her that I wanted to see what it would be like from the doctor's perspective. It was arousing for me, as I enjoyed pretending she was a stranger while I was seeing her naked and feeling her intimate parts, at the same time remaining "professional". I did a complete textboox exam with with her raising her arms over her head while seated, laying while I felt her breasts, a one minute external exam, speculum/pap, bi-manual, but no recto-vaginal. She said that it was realisitc and that she wouldn't be surprised or offended to receive a similar exam if she was seeing a new doctor (although she said most real doctors cut corners and do quick exams).

Since then, we never role played the doctor's scenario again. I recently asked her if she had any fantasies, and she replied "not really, except for maybe having sex on a beach". Is this typical? Do some women try it to experiment, and then never want to do it again? I'm pretty open myself, and if I knew something really turned on my wife, or if she just wanted to experiment, I would be willing to try anything as many times as she wanted. I would be excited that she was aroused by something, even if I had no interest in it myself.

So we are now back to vanilla sex 2 times a month with me giving her oral before I get on top of her. It seems that if I want to explore this subject any further it will have to be on forums like this rather than with my wife.

OsbornCox,

You asked, so, fair warning. If I offend you in any way, it isn't my intention. However with this being said, I usually speak my mind and have no problem saying it like it is. I will try to be gentle, but no promises. You have a very long post with multiple issues so this is how I am going to work this. I will copy and paste a quote from you, then under it will be either my personal opinion, or my medical opinion, or both.

Now please sit back and enjoy the ride. Please keep all hands and arms inside the ride at all times until the ride comes to a complete stop.

"The thought of another man examining her nude has always made me angry, and because of this she has gone to a female doctor infrequently."

A few things here. It's not all that uncommon for a man to be slightly jealous when another man, doctor or not, touches or even looks at his wife. But there needs to come a time in a mans life when it's time to grow up, and realize that people are not posessions, unless you both have agreed to a relationship like that, but that gets into the BDSM issue, and apparently your reference to "vanilla" sex indicates that is clearly not what you mean. Also, your wife is an adult, it's her body, it's also her choice as to whom she sees for medical care. You are lucky, apparently she loves you enough to have not sought medical care as often as she should have due to your carefully choosen word, "infrequently", as well as maybe not gone to the doctor of HER choice because she knew it would upset you.

"I think some of my feelings come from the fact that I think she is the most beautiful woman in the world, and I believe that any male doctor that saw her would be turned on, even if they didn't show it."

Your feelings that you think your wife is the most beautiful woman in the world are very sweet, you are a good boy. However your thinking that "any male doctor that saw her would be turned on, even if they didn't show it", is totally wrong. I don't know how many time I have to say this, but medical professionals do no, and I say it again, DO NOT get turned on at work looking at patients naughty bits. I don't care if your wife was just voted the most beautiful in the world, bits are bits. I have also said a few hundred times as well, in every profession there are a few bad seeds, meaning there have been a few doctors who have crossed that line from professional to perv, but very few. And, to be perfectly fair, it's usually split 50/50 as far as male vs female doctors doing the offending. So having a penis with MD behind your name doesn't equal sexual preditor. Remember, we are there to do a job, and it's a job like everyone elses. I am sure when the new sauces came out at McDonalds the workers oood and awed over them for a few days, but the novelity wore off pretty quickly. Same can be said for us.

'The most important thing to her is that the doctor is professional, friendly, polite, and competent, not whether they are male or female. She believes that male doctors can turn sexual urges on and off, and that when they are doing exams they are completely professional."

The most important thing to ANY patient should be that their doctor is professional, friendly, polite, and competent. What a doctor has between their legs doesn't matter. Now the next statement I actually find a tad offensive. And again, I apoligize here, but, "she believes that MALE doctors can turn sexual urges on and off when they are doing exams so that they can be professional"???

Are you serious? Again, male/female, it doesn't matter, both sexes have an equal potential to be preditors and are equal offenders. But regardless, medical professionals DO NOT get turned on at work seeing naughty bits. See, laymen such as yourself, for whatever reason it may be, could be a thousand, seem to like to "project" their own feelings, thoughts, wants, or desires onto medical professionals. In other words, you think your wife is hot, you like playing with her naughty bits, therefore, all verile men, especially those with access to your wife's naughty bits, by your rationalle, must also think she's hot, and they too get/are turned on. Well, I'm here to break it to you, this isn't the case, AT ALL!

"She also told me that she believes male ob-gyns see so many women during a day, that it is no big deal to them. I asked her if that was true, then how to they get turned on when they go home and see their wives?"

She's partly right, ob's often look at the same parts day in and day out, and no matter what your job is, seeing the same thing over and over gets boring at times. However again with the "male" part of that. Now, your comment next about, "if they see so many naughty bits at work, then how do they get turned on at home with their wives. I actually can't believe you had the balls to say that. Is your wife nothing more than a vagina to you, a place to stick your penis twice a month? Really? Love, love making, relationships etc isn't about individual parts, it's about the whole thing. An OB/GYN whether they are male or female go home to the woman they love and get very turned on by their naughty bits and seeing them naked, but they do so because their partners naughty bits just happen to be connected to everything else about them, including their heart. We love our partners for them, not for their naughty bits, that's the bonus section. Remember sex and attraction starts in the brain, not in your pants.

"Recently we had a situation where she might have to see a male specialist in the near future. I wanted to deal with the problem so that if she had to see a male doctor, I could be there for her rather than have a meltdown. We tried to think of ways to overcome my fear, and I suggested we pick a random male doctor, and that I go in the room with her during the exam. I told her that it would force me to confront my feelings and remain calm. She immediately told me that there was no way I would be allowed in the exam room, and that it would make both her and the doctor feel uncomfortable. I next asked if she could leave her cell phone camera on so that I could see generally what happened, in order to watch it later and deal with the reality of a male doctor examining her. She agreed and made an appointment, but she didn't tell me the date, as she didn't want to stress me out."

"A meltdown?" Over what? Another man touching your wife in a strictly professional manner? How old are you again? Remember, women are not posessions nor are we property unless we CHOOSE to be. Please do not pick a "random" male doctor as a "pawn" in your own personal psych delima. That's not fair to him, or to your wife. Remember, her getting medical exams is not about YOU, it's about HER and her ONLY, her body, not your posession/property. You mentioned earlier that you loved your wife and trusted her. That's great. The reason you should want to go into the exam room with her should only be because you love her and you want to support her, not because you want to make it clear to the doctor that she "belongs to you". Givning a doctor a full court press, peeing higher up the tree, or whatever you men like to do is again, childish, but, in your defence, not all that uncommon. Also, most doctors do not have a problem with husbands, friends, support people, whomever, as long as they are not a hinderance, coming into their exam rooms with their patients, as long as the patient is comfortable with that. Next thing, leaving a cell phone on and recording, shame shame, shame. I sure hope you had his prior consent to do so as I believe there are pretty strict laws about that sort of thing.

"She explained that after the doctor first removed her gown for the breast exam, there was a subconscious "acknowledgement" between the two of them. It wasn't like the doctor did or said anything inappropriate; it was just that he continued to respond to her in a positive manner. She told me that for her this wasn't anything sexual;"

The "subconscious acknowledgement" that happened between is exactly what should have happened with the first exposure of more than a little skin. Not sure if it's a taught thing, or a natural instinct for us medical professionals, but I know when I have to expose more than a little skin on a patient, I always look into their eyes for a brief second after the skin is exposed. What I am looking for is non-verbal consent to continue with the exam. If I see my patient suddently getting rigid, flushed, or noticiably uncomfortable, I stop, cover 'em back up and then ask them if they are okay and if they want me to continue. They were communicating non-verbally for the consent to treat.

"My questions are: Is it possible that my wife was subconsciously turned on during the exam (by having another man see her naked and “accept” her)?"

Yes, very possible, and could be for many many reasons that would not make any sense to you. The one you need to be asking is her, not us.

" Is it possible that the doctor was turned on during the exam and was able to suppress his feelings and be professional?"

Sure it's possible for any doctor to be turned on during an exam, we are all human, but, as I said again, almost 100 percent sure he wasn't, and probably was looking at your wife as only a body that needs his services, nothing more.

" If he was turned on, why didn't he do an external exam, or have her sit and raise her arms over her head during the breast exam (my wife said that it wouldn't have been unusual if he did)?"

Well, he wasn't turned on. An external exam can be both physical and or visual, sometimes along with how they do a breast exam, or in what position can be linked to how they were taught, personal preference, or body type/condition of their patient.

" Is there anyone else who has these dual feelings, where your wife seeing a male doctor bothers you, but at the same time somehow turns you on?"

Yes, there a lot of people who feel this way, some of them grow up and get over it, others can't seem to stop making it about them. Without getting into a deep psychological lesson here, while your feelings are not all that uncommon, they basically stem from your deep seeded need to "show off" your posessions, you are making it very clear to everyone that she belongs to you. See, out on the street, if another man tried to touch your wife's breast, chances are you would man up, kick his ass and show him who's boss, right? Well, you are not able to kick the doctors ass for touching your wifes tits, because she's given him her consent to treat, and there isn't anything you can do about it. That is exactly why you get mad my friend. Someone else is in control of what you think is YOUR property. It's really quite simple.

"Is the mutual great sex after the exam due to stress relief or something else"

Well, depending on the dynamics of your relationship, I am going to go out on a limb here and say, the great sex wasn't because either of you were turned on, but more of the fact that you were feeling the need to plant your seed and reclaim your property, and she was allowing you to do so.

Okay, so on to your second post.........

"I agreed, but I told her that if she went to a male doctor one more time for a necessary yearly exam, it would help me sort out my feelings and get used to the idea of another male seeing her naked."

How about this, instead of thinking about you, how about thinking about how this might be making your wife feel? Asking her to go to another doctor for an exam, exposing herself in order for YOU to sort out your feelings? Seriously. That's not fair, just, or appropriate, for her, not to mention selfish, childish and ridiculous for you.

"I thought about it for a while and concluded that if she went to 3-4 different male doctors for gyn exams over a short period of time, and I was able to somehow see the exams, I would at that point be over any feelings of anger or jealousy."

My thoughts here are again, are you serious? You need to get over yourself already and grow up a bit. If you both love each other, trust each other, then you should not be having any anger issues. Some slight jealousy is normal, and actually healthy, but when you start putting anger and jealousy in the same sentence, it at that point stops being healthy, and viers more into the psycho possessive crazy side of things....ummm, just saying.

" After a certain number of doctors saw her naked, in my mind I would think the damage is done, and another male doctor seeing her naked after that would be no big deal."

The question here is, what damage, damage to whom? You can't mean damage to you, yourself, or your male ego. I absolutely see that there would be damage done to your wife though, but not by the doctors she's been psychologically pressured into being examined by. Her damage wouldn't be physical, but it would be mental.

"Making appointments and going to 3-4 (20) minute gyn exams is not all that difficult,"

Not difficult for who, you? No it's not difficult for you. It's not you who has to shower and shave. It's not you who has to arrange schedules around, plan and what not. And it's not you who has to underss yet again for a total stranger and be touched, and touched medically appropriately might I add, because her husband has property issues.

"and the benefit would really outweigh the cost,"

The benefit to whom, are we still talking about you? And "outweigh the cost? At who's expense? I know it's not yours.

"there is just some psychological barrier now where my wife just shut down and won't talk about it."

Hummm, I wonder why that is? I'm just throwing this out here, I could be wrong, but I'm guessing she's pissed, hurt, humilated, scared, and a whole smattering of other things by you suggesting such a thing. And probably she feels like a two bit whore, and if you loved her, in her mind, you would never ues someone you love as a piece of meat, offered up without choice, or much of one anyway, pressured to agree out of her love for you, feelings of guilt or out of fear of making you "mad" or what not.

"if a speculum is used gently and in combination with oral sex and caressing, it can't be that much worse than a dildo?"

Well, I will tell you what, the next time you have a speculum in your vagina, and then a dildo, then you can answer that.

Okay, I have pretty much addressed all the points of your post that I felt needed to be addressed, or you were asking to be addressed. So wrapping it up here as the ride pulls into the station for a complete stop....I leave you with my two opinions, a medical one, and a personal one.

Medically speaking: You my friend have some serious control/anger management issues that really need to be addressed. It could be anxiety related, could be insecurity on your part, it could be a thousand different things. Point is, your behavior and suggestions that your wife go and see multiple doctors for exams so that YOU can deal with your issues is not healthy or appropriate behavior, for either of you. Often times behaviors like this only get worse if they are not dealt with in managable stages/levels. Like I always say, "better living through chemistry". Try Xanax, or Ativan, take 2, they're small, no, just kidding. Seriously though, maybe something not in a benzo class like Seroquel. Think about it.

Now personally speaking, this is where you get both my barrels coming at you, no holds bard. Listen, your behavior, actions, suggestions to your wife concerning this issue actually border very closely to mental abuse. Your possessiveness over her isn't a good thing. We women are flattered by a little, but more so is a huge turn off. Stop making things about you, especially when it requires something so intimate from her. THat's not fair. You know the saying, "if you love something, let it free, if it loves you it will come back." You made her feel like a dirty whore, a piece of meat that you can do with as you want. She feels hurt, ashamed, degraded, and probably on many levels has lost respect for her ownself, both because by you even suggesting such a thing clearly tells her that you don't have any respect for her, and it's just natural, when people have been married long enough, sometimes how they measure their own self worth depends on how much they are valued by the person they love. So congrats, you probably shattered her sprit, made her feel like a dirty whore, ruined your sex life/relationship, and made her feel worthless, all because you are childish, selfish and immature.

But hey, that's just my two cents worth and a little bit extra. And remember, you asked for it, and I just call 'em like I see 'em.

Mashie

I won't go into great detail. My opinion: Your wife should be able to choose what doctor she wants to see male or female, it is her decision not yours. Be glad that she wants to be healthy and take care of herself. These exams can detect some very serious health issues, and if put off too long could be fatal. And your worried if maybe her and/or the doctor being turned on at the time??? To me it sounds as if you have control issues as well as major insecurities. I can't believe you asked her to record the exam - and she did. Seriously? .....Seriously? Maybe you need to see a counselor to work out some of these issues that you are struggling with, there is no shame in that what so ever. I know this may sound harsh but you asked. Please Do Not Make Your Problem Your WIfe's Problem also!!!

Hey friend....

next time go inn to see the doc with her.

Most doctors allow...

I always do and ENJOY every second of it

Do not bitter yout life nor your wives for it

I have to say that Mashie offered you a lot more kindness and support than I'm going to. What I'm about to say echoes babyface: GET OVER IT. You've beaten this horse until it's way more than dead. Not only do you have a complex about the issue of your wife being examined by another man, but you're on the verge of giving her a complex as well. I can tell you that if I were in her shoes i would NEVER tell you again about a gyn issue or exam that I was about to have. Heck, you've almost given me a complex about it and I'm not married to you!

Please, stop making a mountain out of a molehill. If you absolutely must, go to your wife's next appointment with her. Take a seat in the chair provided and keep your eyes open and your mouth shut. But honestly, given the fact that you have such mixed feelings about the situation, I would much rather have you just stay at home.

JMHO

Mashie and ladydocisin, you both sound like you're in the medical field, and if that's the case, what are you doing on a medical fetish forum? I know this may be strange to you, but if I was a male doctor, I would be turned on while doing gyn exams on attractive women (I know there are some diseased/ugly women, but some have to be attractive). It has nothing to do with love, it's just a natural reaction to seeing a naked female. Despite being aroused, I would still be able to do my job and be professional, and I would still go home and love my wife just the same. This may be shocking, but I never ever get sick of looking at naked women. I think it's commendable that doctors who are sick/bored of seeing naked women can still go home and have a satisfying sex life with their wives, and that they can turn that part of themselves on/off like a switch. But that's certainly not the case with all doctors. I personally was friends with an anesthesiologist who used to brag about how him and the surgeons used to "peek" at women and discuss their anatomy once they were out. You're right, I don't own my wife, and I have never been possessive or jealous of her. She wears what she wants, does what she wants, and is friends with anyone she wants. I have never told her not to go to a doctor, so her health care has never been comprimised. I just always preferred she see a female if there was an option. And a doctor was never used as a pawn, she only went for necessary appointments. I don't see you ripping other people apart on this site when they say they go for 4 appointments in a day. And yes, I am putting it behind us, as I have dropped the issue and don't really want to talk about it anymore. I already said that she would NEVER want me to go into any appointment with her, as she told me it would make both her and the doctor feel uncomfortable. You have to respect how other people view their relationships: some people swing or have open relationships while others are very conservative, and there's everything in between. I just thought I would share my story and that it might help someone else in the same position. Thanks for your "help".

I thought I'd seen just about the limit in ingratitude until I saw that, Master Cox, but that is really plumbing the depths.

You come to the site whining about your wife being examined by male medical professionals and that you are insanely jealous of that. Then you have the gall to admit that YOU are turned on by seeing naked ladies - possibly even married ladies who have husbands! How dare you! And you've been on the site all of two days!!!!

You ask why mashie and ladydoc are on this site - Could it be they are here with a wish to help d***heads (not you of course Master Cox) who whinge, whine, complain, take benefit from the site and then spit on people who seek to answer their questions? So Master Cox- why are YOU on this site? Ah, I think I have the answer. You need justification for your own lascivious thoughts and people like mashie working their fingers off for people like you (not you of course Master Cox) mean nothing to you - just contempt and not a word of thanks - except a patronising and insulting end to your diatribe.

Long may you be tormented by your jealousy!

Call me a dickhead or whatever you want. I guess it's black and white here, and there is no sympathy for someone who has feelings that aren't in line with theirs. The real reason I feel this way? My real grandfather was my grandmother's gynecologist (she got pregnant after an annual exam). No therapist can help with that, and I have to live with it the rest of my life, and so do my children. The doctor was actually very respected in the community, and he never accepted responsibility for the pregnancy.

I was willing to try to get over how I feel, but after recent events, as well as reading the posts on this site, I've decided to just accept my feelings, keep them to myself, and let the issue go. Some people just don't like the flavor of licquorice, some people do, that's life. Even if I remain calm and don't tell another soul again, I still don't like another male seeing my wife naked, and I now accept that. I accept other people's feelings, and I don't look down on them. I came to this site to learn about other people's perspectives, not to be insulted or ridiculed. I read your posts, and respect your opinion, however at this point I consider the post closed. Thanks for your advice and assistance.

This thread is a good illustration of the point I recently made (in "Help and Information") about lack of respect on the board. Too much intemperate language here, on both sides of the exchange. You all could have said what you wanted to say in a cooler, more reasonable manner and your points would have been made just as well - maybe even better. Let's keep the atmosphere civil and friendly, even when we disagree.

Woodpecker, thanks for the understanding, I really really appreciate it. I'm sorry if I offended any medical professionals on this site, or any women who have a good relationship with their male doctors. I never said all male doctors are bad apples. I believe there are some bad, some good, and some in between who are just "bruised" apples. I think that the psychology of the male Dr/female patient is often overlooked, and I just wanted to understand it better.

My grandfather was a nice man from what I've heard. I'm sure he was professional with 99.9% of his patients, and what happened with my grandmother was just a lapse in judgement (it takes 2). If a doctor was turned on, but was professional and able to do his job, is there anything wrong with that? No...he's human. The truth is, people will never know anyways, as a doctor would never never admit to it (thay can't, and shouldn't).

The ironic thing is that I tried to present the same story to guys who don't like male doctor's seeing their wives, and they slammed me for trying to deal with the issue. They told me I should just convince my wife how horrible male doctors are and never allow one to see her. So I must be real odd, because I got flamed from both ends. Regardless, I will still try to learn from people on this site and contribute when I can. I find the different perspectives interesting.

I feel I should apologize. Woodpecker makes a good point about intemperate language. Although I stand by the spirit of what I said, for a person that prides herself on being tactful and diplomatic I didn't handle my response very well.

Part of my insensitivity may stem from the fact that I have 3 or 4 doctor appointments a week and I have become immune to any nervousness or jitters. I could care less whether they are male or female, or somewhere in between. And I also don't care what or where they are examining.

As far as I'm concerned, my visits to the doctor are just another chance for more bad news. My partner comes with me to certain visits, just to make sure that I actually go. Certainly, you have every right to feel uncomfortable, if indeed you do even though I may not understand it.

OsbornCox you are showing your total ignorance and lack of respect for others, including your wife, you ask for opinions but then go back to show that all that matters to you is your own!!

GET OVER IT MAN!!!

I do wish that the information about your grandfather had been at the very start of this thread. It would have made the initial post and your feelings make more sense. If "No therapist can help with that, and I have to live with it the rest of my life, and so do my children," I'm not seeing how we can solve the issue for you either.

And, one really does need to be careful asking questions or for opinions if one doesn't want the answers that come, especially on a "hot topic" like this.

Thanks ladydocisin. Again, I'm sorry, as I didn't realize it was such a controversial subject. I respect other people's opinions, I just don't like being called a dickhead, or having other people say "grow up" or "get over it" (it may work for some, but it's too simplistic for my situation). I think we all have different experiences that have affected or viewpoints, and I believe there is no one definitive answer to anything. Perhaps it was cathartic for me to tell my story and just have someone listen. I wasn't expecting anyone to just agree with me or accept how I feel. I kind of came here as a last resort to learn how other people feel about the subject (where else could I find such a wealth of knowledge?), as I have never found anyone who felt the same way as me: either people tell me to grow up, or they tell me how all male doctors are perverts (which doesn't help me at all). Similarly, either people are fascinated by gynecology, or they look at it only as a necessary evil.

When I made the statement that I would be aroused if I had to do gyn exams, I wasn't trying to give the impression that I'm a pervert, I just sincerely feel that women's bodies are facinating and beautiful. I could never imagine it being boring, as I believe every woman is unique and special in her own way. Even though I have been with my wife for over 10 years, I could look at her naked for hours and hours. I'm also into gadgets, and I think gyn tools like speculums are interesting, but I'm not obsessed with them. Even though people may say I'm weird because of this, I'm accepting of people who are into swinging, bondage, auto erotic, golden showers, orgies, spanking, fisting, simulated rape, feet, etc. I even had a friend that actually used to choke his girlfriends while having sex. One of his girlfriend told me she thought she was going to die at first, but then she got used to it because she loves him. To each his own.

chester89, I didn't want to mention my grandfather at first, as my entire life I have probably only told my wife and one other girlfriend. It's really hard for me to talk about, and my parents could never deal with it. Maybe that subconsciously affects how I feel, but I can't change who I am or who my ancestors are.

My intent throughout the whole story was to come to terms with my feelings and try to change. In the end, I hoped to learn to deal with it, so that if she went to a male doctor for a necessary appointment, we could talk about it openly and maybe even laugh or have fun with it (i.e how we had really good sex after one of her exams). That was probably an unrealistic expectation on my part.

I am very good to my wife and I respect her very much, and again I am not jealous or protective of her. Anything she did to help me she did willingly, and as I said before, she was actually happy because she wanted to help. I would never have asked her to do something she didn't want to do. She told me that she did not want me to ever go into an exam with her, so I respected how she felt and never asked again. I also accept that she wanted to leave things as they are now. That's life, we're never going to solve all our problems. The following saying applies to me, "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference". I know it's probably something I'm just never going to like, but I can learn to accept it and keep my feelings to myself. I don't mean to sound silly, but my wife just doesn't like brussel sprouts, no matter how much I tell her they taste great and are good for her.

As far as phobias go, there is a treatment called flooding where they overwhelm someone with their fear and force them to cope. Iit's supposedly the fastest way to get over a phobia. (i.e., if someone is afraid of flying, you put them on a plane with a ticket to Australia). It's not for everyone, but it does work for some. Systematic desensitization (the other option for treating phobia) doesn't work for me, because talking about a fear for me is not real, and doesn't cause a phobic response. I can sit back and rationally think about a situation when it's hypothetical, but when I'm actually in that situation I panic (that's what I meant about a meltdown, not that I start screaming or anything). To give some examples: I used to have a fear of heights, so I went rock climbing and parasailing; I was afraid of deep water, so I learned scuba diving; I used to have a fear of having blood drawn, until I had to have 5 draws in a week . I'm also very visual in that I need to see something myself to understand it. I am not into gore, but I have looked at websites like "Documenting Reality" and "Rotten.com" so that those type of pictures don't bother me anymore. My wife saw me looking at narco drug beheading pics one night and said "that's disgusting, how could you look at that". It may sound crazy to some, but it has worked for me. Maybe I wasn't being realistic, and there is no way to apply the same "flooding" to my dislike of a male doctor seeing my wife.

I'm not rejecting anyone's advice when I say that I'm just going to accept the way I feel, I'm just coming to the realization that not many people understand how I feel, and it's probably best just to keep it to myself and move on. I will read posts here to try to learn more, but I will try to be more careful about what I say in the future. Please try to understand that I have/had good intentions, and try to understand it from my perspective before you judge me. And please, no more flaming, I have already been torched. Thanks again.

OsbornCox,

I too wish you had mentioned the information about your grandfather at some point in your post. I actually applaud you for being so honest with your feelings.

You have to understand that as a medical professional, it is my job, my duty, my responsibility, and my pleasure to give a voice to those who can't speak for themselves. I am an advocate for them. The mistake I made here was that my initial thought was that I needed to give her a voice, that she was "my patient" so to speak, but I was wrong, It's you that needs the voice. And I mean that with the respect, please read on and you will see what I am saying.

I have to tell you, I'm usually pretty good at listening to what people mean, as well as what they say. And after rereading your post, mine, and all that followed, suddenly it's all become very clear. I hope you read what I am going to tell you and think about it. It might clear some stuff up for you.

Your feelings are actually quite valid psychologically speaking. The crass version is, a doctor knocked up your grandmother then didn't take responsibility. This person was someone of importance in the community. I'm sure she got pregnant during a time in this country when it was totally unacceptable for single women to have babies. Often times women were "sent to Aunt Ann's house" for 5-7 months because "Aunt Ann is getting on in age and needs some help."

Your Grandmother was basically used and disgarded. Her feelings of also shame and guilt were then imprinted onto the future generations, i.e., you. We will never know what happened in that exam room so many years ago, but we know the outcome. It doesn't matter what profession someone has, if they are in a position of power and they somehow take advantage of that power, or even if it's totally consentual and the outcome is a negative one, it's quite understandable how it would cause distrust in the moment, and for all those currently and in the future, directly involved, to have a "blanket" mistrust for many in that position, i.e, doctors as the case may be for you.

Most of us are taught from very early on that you can trust people like doctors, nurses, teachers, police etc. But because of what happened to your grandma, you have an inner struggle happening on a daily basis. A tug of war between knowing that all doctors are not like that, but knowing that some are, as well as knowing the facts of what happened to your grandma, and the rest of the world telling you to trust a certain group of people.

See, you are not possessive of your wife in any context except medical. You are trying to kill your inner struggle that you have been fighting your entire life, that, "I can trust doctors, all doctors are not going to take advantage of their patients, my wife will be "safe" if she is being seen/treated by a male doctor."

So, by having your wife see multiple male doctors for multiple visits, having a possitive outcome of, "all the visits were professional, she wasn't touched unprofessionally etc., in your mind it's a way of putting your inner struggle finally after all these years to rest. It makes perfect sense. I'm not articulating myself very well here, so I hope you are understanding some of what I am trying to say, lol.

Part of winning inner struggles is to first identify the real issue. I think you are a good guy, and you want to move on, you want to trust, but you also are not a fool, your brain wants positive proof that doctors are trustworthy. No one can probably talk you out of that, "need of proof", but by identifying the base issue, maybe you can change your view of doctors, their actions, and behaviors, in a more open frame of mind.

I can't change you, or change your opinion on this inner struggle of yours, but you have the power to stop the cycle. Try not to imprint your children, and that's very hard, remember, children learn what they live. The world is scary enough as it is, they need to know that in general, there are certain people they can trust, as a general rule, and others they cannont, for the same rule. Their health in the future may very well depend on that.

Think about it, you have the power to stop the deamon that currently haunts you from haunting your children, your childrens children and so on. Don't make your past their future.

Mashie

Mashie,

Thanks, I appreciate your feedback, and I think what you said makes a lot of sense. I'm sorry I didn't say more up front, there was just so much to tell and so many conflicting feelings. Part of me feels that my real grandfather probably was a good man and a great doctor, it's just that things went to far one day, and it might not have been all his fault. He's was just a human being, with all of our frailties and failings. My grandmother's husband didn't know a first, but when he finally found out, it destroyed their marriage. My grandmother then had to raise 9 kids by herself. You're right about the times, as back then it was just swept under the carpet, and no one acknowledged it. I still can't get over what happened. I didn't find out about it until later in life because it was a big family secret. I hold on to a picture of the doctor from an old newspaper clipping. It's scary how much he looks like me, whereas my grandmother's husband (and her other children) look completely different. It's almost like Arnold/Danny Devito in Twins. It's really hard when you come to the realization that you aren't who you thought you were your whole life.

It's not that I'm judging doctors, or saying that they're bad people either. I'm accepting of the fact that they could sometimes be slightly aroused during an exam, but if they're professional and courteous, how can anyone criticize them? In fact, I should be complimented if they thought my wife was attractive, and my feelings would be more hurt if they thought she was ugly.

You're exactly right about how I feel: If I saw 4-5 different male doctors do a full exam of my wife (as hard as it would be to watch), and nothing bad happened, I believe the fear would finally start to subside and I would realize everything is going to be ok. Doing it that way in a controlled enviornment (i.e. chosing to do it, and deciding when and where) rather than an unavoidable last minute exam that we have no control over (that's when I start to panic) would give more of a sense of control over the fear. I tried to think of other ways to solve my problem, but actually seeing it really happen and forcing myself to deal with my emotions is the only thing that helps. Trying to run away from it in the past has only made things worse. I've tried systematic desensitization (visualizing it), and mantras like "they see women all day, my wife is no different, etc", but they didn't help.

When my wife went to a male doctor before, it did help tremendously, and I was part way there, but I felt like I needed something more to finally get me over it. The reality of that "something more" is just not feasible, as I do not want to use doctors as a pawns, nor do I want to ask my wife to do anything she is uncomfortable with. It helped some by talking about it here, and your recent post was reassuring; but the way I look at it now is that if I can't get over it completely, I would rather "put a tourniquet on it". I don't want to regress, and I don't want to cause problems for other people; and as someone pointed out, I might give my wife a phobia if I continually tell her how I feel. I would rather suffer in silence from now on.

I really, really wanted to get over the fear and be able to put it behind me. Ideally, it would have been nice for my wife to be able to go an apointment with a male doctor (only if it was necessary), then talk/laugh about it when she got home, maybe have great sex (I actually read that intense sex and bonding can happen after fear/stress, similar to going on a scary rollercoaster and having sex right after), and then forget about it (i.e., not obsess with it, but just have lighthearted fun with it, as some people do here). Some of my thoughts/ideas may be crazy, but I hope someone else will get something out of this after reading the thread in its entirety (god forbid, if there was ever someone else in a similar position as me).

Woodpecker wrote:

This thread is a good illustration of the point I recently made (in "Help and Information") about lack of respect on the board. Too much intemperate language here, on both sides of the exchange. You all could have said what you wanted to say in a cooler, more reasonable manner and your points would have been made just as well - maybe even better. Let's keep the atmosphere civil and friendly, even when we disagree.

I read this thread before I went to bed last night, before Woodpecker's post was on. Tired as I was, I was tempted to write something in the same vein as he has now done. I'm not sure if I would have succumbed to that temptation today, or adopted the course I usually do when I see spats like this going on: roll my eyes and think "let them get on with it". I would have been wrong to do the latter.

As woodpecker said, there's just too much of this sort of thing here lately, and he's had the guts to say so. We both posted on the thread he mentioned, and on it I said that some people seem to subscribe to the adage "you have every right to an opinion, as long as it agrees with mine". When I see someone express an opinion, or pose a question, and it appears to me - and I know to others who've expressed such views to me privately - that they are set upon by what bears striking resemblance to a pack of feral dogs, it makes me wonder what the hell I'm doing here.

Everyone has their demons/fears/hangups, call it what you will, and there's usually more to it than most people feel they wish to reveal - even to those who are normally close confidantes. It's all very well to say it would have been better if this or that had been known earlier, but even without that knowledge the tone of the response could and should have been more temperate, and it's to the credit of those who have now admitted that. Reading what's been written after Woodpecker's comments just shows what can be done when a little tolerance and willingness to look at things from the other person's perspective is exercised.

I have a friend who suffers from clinical depression. Sometimes when he rings me up and is having a bad time, I scarcely know what to say, but I pride myself I can do a lot better than saying "pull yourself together" or "get over yourself", or spewing out some diatribe informing him he really has no business feeling the way he does - and if I couldn't I would be doing him a greater service by saying nothing.

I'm not a religious man, but I do believe that, as the saying goes, the devil doesn't have all the best tunes: by this I mean there is some good advice in The Bible, such as "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Since this thread is likely to get a greater readership than anything in 'Questions and Feedback', I just hope, I really do, that some lessons will be learned from this - not just by those involved here, but by our wider community - and that this place gets back to looking more like a discussion forum and less like a boxing ring.

I need to make an apology for the use of the term dickhead. Not only to OsbornCox but to others too, because that element of my post was addressed to many.

Whilst my inclusion of that term was directed at all of those who seem to display ingratitude it was said with a desire to draw attention to a lack of manners on the site - and there was I doing exactly the same thing! It was not the right thing to say and I'm sorry.

So, whilst I unreservedly withdraw my using that derogatory term I want the rest of the message - to myself and others, to remain and that is if we disagree about something we should do so politely.

I will though say just one more thing, echoing Fencer55, and that is that you did ask for opinions OsbornCox.

Mashie in particular spent a lot of time and effort trying to assist you in sorting out your feelings - in the absence of the critical information about why you have this phobia - your grandfathers actions! You rebuffed hers and ladydoc's efforts when you said, patronisingly, - Thanks for your "help"! It also seemed to me that in saying that you were aroused at the sight of naked females that it was all a one way thing, that you were jealous of your wife being naked before a man but enjoyed other women being naked in front of you. I think a few others got that impression too. So I now further withdraw and apologise for saying "Long may you be tormented by your jealousy!" That was worse than saying dickhead.

My screen name is BigK but I'm not too big to say sorry!

All is well that ends well, at least we got the thread back on track. There is a saying that goes something like: written communication is misinterpreted 70% of the time, phone communication 50% of the time, and face to face 30% of the time (I may be wrong on the percentages). I think it's easy to misinterpret someone without seeing their body language, facial expressions, the inflection of their voice, etc, and only having limited information about the person only makes it worse.

I have a thick skin, and I forgive any of the bashing I took. I also never meant to insult anyone or be dismissive, I think I got a little defensive because it is such an emotional issue for me. I can see by the length of Mashie's and ladydocisin's posts that they were intent on helping, and sometimes people feel they need to dispense "tough love". I do appreciate different perspectives, even if they are hard to hear, but Mashie's recent post was right on, and it was a really good to feel like someone finally understood me (even if they don't agree with everything I said). I thought it would be easier to find acceptance here than in a forum of men who hate male doctors, which would only reinforce my phobia and make it worse. I also want to let everyone know that I put a lot of time into my posts, and even though it's controversial, I hope that others will gain something by reading this thread in its entirety.

Thanks BigK. As far as how I feel about women's appearance, I sincerely feel that there is nothing more beautiful in the world than the nude female form, but I love my wife, and I don't go out of my way to look at other nude females. It's facinating that women are so diverse, but beautiful in their own way. Aside from outward appearance, I'm very intrigued by how women can be so different, with big/small nipples/labia, shaved/full pubic hair, etc. I also think women's vulvas are so delicate and intricate, they are like works of art. I hope you can understand what I mean when I said that I would get "aroused" if I was a doctor and had to do gyn exams. It's not merely a sexual feeling, and it's not like I would get an erection or act unprofessional, it's just that I find women very aesthetically pleasing, and because of that there would be some sense of gratification (I'm not sure that's the right word). It would almost be like having that feeling of the "butterflys".

The closest scenario involving the appreciation of a woman's beauty is that of a figure drawing artist. I had a friend who was an art major, and he sketched hundreds of nude models, but he said he never lost that appreciation of a woman's beauty. He also told me that it was fascinating because there are very few situations where a woman will take off her clothes for a complete stranger. He actually saved one drawing of a woman he had a special fondness for. He showed it to me once. It wasn't like he was sexually aroused, or that he said anything crude or demeaning, he just got this dreamy look in his eyes, and he said he would never forget her.

As a doctor it would be fascinating to meet and get to know different women, and then be able to appreciate their individual beauty like few men can. It would almost be like unwrapping a present in terms of the excitement, but I wouldn't get any kind of cheap sexual thrill out of it. To have a great conversation, make a connection, and see a woman smile at the same time would generate even more positive feelings. I know it would get boring to some extent, and that there would be plenty of ugly/diseased women, but some of the positive feelings would always remain. Having worked through some of these thoughts, I think I can partially understand male doctors. If I did their job, I could appreciate women's beauty, and still go home and love/be turned on by my wife just the same (who knows, I might even appreciate her more). But I don't want that, I just want to love an appreciate my wife.

With my wife, seeing her naked and up close was the highest form of trust/intamacy. We had sex long before she would let me see her naked with the light on. Even though I was intensely attracted to her when we first met, we were actually friends for a while before our relationship became physical, because I had so much respect for her and I wanted to really appreciate it when we became intimate. 10 years later I am still intensely attracted to her, and as I said, I can look at her naked and marvel at her beauty for hours, she is never boring to me. I think some of my feeling are because I love her so much, and partly because I believe everyone has an "idea" mate in their subconscious mind, and how she is put together physically is more pleasing to me than it would be to other guys. I hope other guys can understand me expand on my thought, and that women can appreciate what I'm saying and not be insulted.

I also wanted to say that the reactions or "meltdowns" I had when a male doctor saw my wife naked in the past are more like a panic attack. I felt intense fear, anxiety, and apprehension, not anger or jealousy. It wasn't something that I did intentionally or rationally. It's a terrible feeling, and it's not something you can control when it starts. Now that I think about it, I think many/most doctors would actually be willing to help if we respectfully explained the situation; but as I said, having me in the exam is not something my wife is comfortable with, and I respect her feelings. I also think it would change the dynamics of the doctor-patient relationship with another person in the room. My wife said that if I was there it would probably go a little quicker, and that both her and the doctor might be a little nervous and they would talk less. For me, I would want to know what really happens, not what it's like when I'm there, but now I realize that's not realistic, so I'm trying to work through my feelings in other ways.

Mixed feelings, being told the thoughts and feelings of your closest friend and lover while being examined, or witnessing the same is totally different and so it should be. There are many shades of grey, some quite dark while others very clear. Good on you for sharing your feelings!

OsbornCox,

As I mentioned in my last post, I think you actually are a good boy, kind, loving, and appreciative. Now I know this to be true.

Even though I am a woman, I completely understand what you are trying to say when you talk about being "aroused" by the female form. I know that you don't always or even most of the time mean sexually, with the exception of your wife. You are a gentle soul. You appreciate a woman's beauty. We are all very different, beautiful in our own way, no matter what shape we are. We, (women) for lack of better terms, fascinate you, we arouse you, and I don't mean your penis, I mean your brain, and your inner most ponderings.

I know exactly what you are saying and how you feel when your panic attacks come on. It is exactly like a roller coaster. Fear sets in, and you go from standing in line to being in the front seat, no seatbelt, going 1000 miles an hour. You are not at all in control, and you have no idea when the ride is going to stop. And like a roller coaster, when you finally get off the ride, sometimes it takes a while for your mind to fully process exactly what you had just been through.

It was said once by someone that "there is nothing more beautiful than a woman's body, and nothing more mysterious." I am sure you find this to be true. I happen to find the same in a man's body. Like you, I like to "see" things, study them, find what makes everyone different and beautiful in their own way. Like most people, I often ponder what it feels like to be of the opposite sex, I think because I want to completely understand and appreciate who, what, and how men really are. Make sense?

I said in my earlier post as well that the largest part of any battle is finding out exactly what it is you are fighting. Another huge part is the willingness to fight, you have done both. 80 percent of you deamon is dead, now all you need to do is finish him off. You may never be able to accomplish that last 20 percent. Remember your serenity prayer, "God, grant me the power to accept the things that I cannot change..." Sometimes winning means accepting and being okay with that, not always being a clear cut winner. I know, that sucks. But it can be okay.

You are on the right track. Remember, when you talk to others, especially men about your feelings concerning your wife being touched by another man, and they agree with you, that they are answering you on "face value", meaning that their reasons are most likely because of jealousy, or posessiveness. And if a woman answers you as I had done first, chances are she is also doing the same, thinking how she would feel if her husband did that.

However, if and only if people know the true story, your history, can they then put the pieces together to get the entire picture. It is only then can people see the truth, logic, and love behind your thoughts, motivations, and actions. It's all good. Remember, "one day at a time".

OsbornCox, I am very glad we were away for the Labor Day weekend and I just got to this post because you would have gotten the hardest punch of my tough love if I said what I thought in the second post in this thread.

I don't want to open old wounds. However, I do feel that you do have issues that need to be dealt with. I do tend to be more tough love than most, and inclined to say, "get over it, what happened was a long long time ago." Its time to move on. I fully agree with Mashie's ending statement about changing what you can and accepting what you cannot.

Your grandparents did what they did because the two of them decided to do it, regardless of who initiated it. For better or worse, they are your family. If you care about them and your own sanity, you should let go of your anxiety over your wife being examined and viewed by doctors regardless of their sex. . . . and that's what YOU said in your post #15.

Enjoy the release of your demons. No one deserves to be haunted that way.

Because a guy doesn’t like the idea of his wife being examined by a male gynecologist he need to almost be institutionalized is, in my opinion an over reaction. Even for a story that appears a bit over the top, as I feel this one does. I wonder just where in med school they installed the little switch that turns off the libido. My brother is a physician and he must have missed that day. With all the flames about how stupid this writer must be for even thinking that way, I thought I had inadvertently signed on to the ACOG site instead of Zity. I can already feel the heat of the flames coming after me now. Those writers who have decided he really needs help, and apparently if they knew who he was would like to drag him kicking and screaming to the nearest mental health long term lock up, make the obvious mistake. They seem to indicate that if a male gynecologist was turned on by a pretty patient he would turn into Dr Hyde. What if he would just rather examine a pretty girl instead of a 200 pound over weight bag lady living next to the garbage cans. I have heard the expression from a few members of the healing arts to the effect ‘The sharper the girl, the better the exam’, and not just for the patient. A little tingle in the male parts is enough maybe to show approval. He wouldn’t have to crawl around on the floor and howl. I hope, and I have had some reason to believe I was correct, that my doctors are happy to see me. And it aint just for the MONEY....