UTI again

Ok so going to throw this out and see if anyone can give some feed back. The last 2 times the wife has gone in for her yearly exam she has contracted a UTI within a month. We are wondering if this could be a reaction to the lube being used during her exam? We know it is not a latex allergy. It is also not toxic shock as she has not had her period as of yet.

Has anyone elese ever expierenced anything like this before?

My thoughts on it are that it is a reaction to something the doctor uses. I asked the wife if she douched after her exam and she said know and now she is regretting it.

Anyone have any feedback before she gets one of those kits and/or calls the doctor?

Have YOU been tested to see if you are giving it to her??? Is someone else giving it to her--an affair?

You could be carrying something that is not adversely affecting you, but does affect her. She could be getting it from your ejaculate or from inadequate hygiene prior to intercourse.

A woman's urethra is short, and the bladder on up the urinary tract can get more easily infected than a man from intercourse..

You get an infection from bacteria, not doctor's lubes or latex.

Are you engaging in medfet activities that are contaminating her?

......she has contracted a UTI within a month.

whitehose refers to these attacks (only twice, though that doesn't of course negate the distress experienced) coming at around a month after the yearly check.

I'd say that with that sort of interval, a month after the examination, it's extremely unlikely to be connected to the procedure, the instruments and lubes etc used, or the environment of the doctors office. UTI's, when they are contracted show up pretty quickly as far as my knowledge goes.

Douching isn't likely to have any positive effect on the contracting or otherwise of a UTI - unless the douche medium is something so potent as to be unwise.

Susie asks if it might be that you are giving her the infection. I would assume that you are having sexual intercourse more frequently than once a year, a month after the examination, and if you are then she would almost never be free of UTI's.

I think that just two attacks, at intervals of a year, are insufficient to draw conclusions as to the cause. Is there something else that coincides with the annual examination, the month interval and the resulting UTI? Are you having extra vigorous sex in the post examination period, because bruising of the urethral tract can result in similar symptoms to cystitis? I ask this because a lot of couples say that they are extra active when re-living the examination!

Apart from that I guess you can only wait another 12 months to see if it recurrs again.

U do know u can get toxic shock what ever time of the month it is...anyway unlikely unless shes shivering and has numbness in her extremities..so rule that out!

as for UTI its probably co-incidence. a bunch of stuff can cause it.

like BigK said the obvious one is honeymoon cystitis, stop banging her so hard! lol

Thank you ba3003 for supporting some of my thoughts on this.

It does seem though that whitehose needs to wait till after the next annual examination to see if the same thing happens.

I actually wonder if whitehose and his wife are actually waiting for a month or so after the examination before having sex. If so then intercourse is likely to be extra vigourous after a period of abstinence.

'Honeymoon Cystitis' is a euphemism hanging over from the days when pre-marital sex was less common than it is today, when intercourse on the wedding night and the honeymoon was likely to be frequent, vigourous and probably clumsy and often co-incided with defloration too.

It is, at least in that context, not true cystitis but rather the bruising of the urethral area, particularly the urethral meatus, in unaccustomed intercourse. There are though schools of thought that link honeymoon cystitis to a bacteriological cause, citing the probability that the urethral tract is ultra sensitive to the introduction of bacteria in the early days of sex, which the immune system has to get accustomed to dealing with.

As a general caution, though whitehose talks little about enemas - I rarely see mentioned the possibility of bacterial contamination and the need for care, from faecal flora when the somewhat forceful expulsion of rectal contents occurs. Women in particular need to be aware of the added risk they have of a UTI due to the proximity of the anus to the vulva and the shorter urethra which women have and they need to be scrupulous about cleansing.

You are correct it only happens 1 time a year. Last year was 4 days after this year 21 days after.

We are not doing anything out of the ordinary just normal sex 2-3 times a week and save up our medfet time special occasions.

@ Susie I have to have myself check 2 times a year for work and have been tested for all the common std's.

FYI - TMP is definitely not available over the counter here in the states, more's the pity. If it were, I'd have my highly allergic dog on it 24/7!

Ladydocisin-didnt think you would be able to buy it over the counter. You cant here in england either but can in europe.

Couple questions ...

Has the UTI actually been diagnosed with a lab culture? Increased burning, frequency, discomfort often associated with a UTI MAY only be inflammation/irritation from the exam itself and thus self-resolving.

Has your wife mentioned this to her doc? IF this is a UTI that could be associate with her exam, the doc may consider profalactic antibiotics prior to her appointment to continue a few days after.

Does your wife limit her fluid intake prior to her appt? Many women do this is order to not have to urinate @ the office or feel the pressure during the exam from a full bladder. She should be increasing her fluid intake at this time to assist in flushing any potential irritants/etc from her urethra after her exam.

She may also want to bathe immediately after her appt ...to cleanse any residual lubricant from the area. If she's sensitive to the lubricant, the longer any of it remains in contact with the tissues, the increased chance of irritation exists.

Another possibility is if the cultures repeatedly come back negative with the symptoms of a UTI - It may well be Interstital Cystitus.

If your UA comes back with white blood cells and a little bit of red blood cells but no bacteria or nitrites, you may be suffering from interstitial cystitis, not a bladder infection. Trust me on this, I suffered what I thought was UTI after UTI after UTI and it turned out I never had infections, just inflammation from IC. Wander over to http://www.ic-network.com/forum/ and read up on it. I have also written about it in my blog if you want to check it out. It's no fun but it can be treated and your flares can lessen in frequency and intensity.

What is a good anti-biotic to prevent UTI in a woman due to urethral play? One woman I know said that a medical technician told her they don't bother using betadine before catheterizing a woman, since a surface application will not get the bacteria that are always in a woman's urethra, and will most likely be pushed into the bladder. He said they just apply some kind of anti-biotic as a lube, and insert.

This woman says she uses Neosporin for this purpose before sounding or cathing herself. But Neosporin is based on petroleum jelly, which is not going to be readily flushed out.

Is there some kind of water-based anti-bacterial product that could be used as a lube for a catheter or sound?

There is a lube called Surgilube that is a sterile lubricant used in medical settings. You can buy it online or at your local medical supply shop. It feels like KY only possibly the tiniest bit thicker. I don't know about antibiotic creams. I always used anti-bacteria medical wipes prior to cathing or being cathed.

~ Dianne

What is a good anti-biotic to prevent UTI in a woman due to urethral play?

Cipro is an oral antibiotic targetted to UTI. The use of any OTC topical such as Neosporin is not accepted practice. A STERILE Catheter Insertion Tray costs less than a catheter and has all of the required items to safely disinfect the "patient", as well as sterile lubricant. Some education on sterile urological procedure would go a lot further in terms of safety than experimenting with first aid ointments.

I'm just quoting what a woman said she was told by EMT personnel. According to her, IT IS their standard modern medical practice to skip all the cleaning with betadine or other anti-bacterial wash. The explanation for it is that this does little to prevent a UTI, since there are always bacterial already present in a woman's urethra, and the bacteria are going to be pushed into the bladder. Washing with betadine & using sterile Surgilube won't help at all in dealing with the internal bacteria. She was told it's better to start treating the bacteria that are going to be pushed in -- by using an anti-bacterial product, not Surgilube.

I've seen 2 training videos for cathing a woman in a hospital setting. They use the standard trays, sterile procedures, betadine extternal wash around urethral opening, sterile Surgilube. The point is, the EMT technicians say this does little good.

I understand that Cipro is the standard treatment for a UTI after you've already got it. I am looking for an alterntive to using Neosporin as the lube, so a woman would be more unlikely to need the Cipro.

To be safe, I think I'd use the betadine wash & sterile technique. But it seems to make sense to me that it would be smart (as the EMT Techs say) to start dealing with the internal bacteria from the beginning too.

That's why I'm asking what is some commercial product that is water soluble.

I don't think EMTs administer catheters. I know EMT-basics don't. As for Paramedics, I don't know for sure but I doubt it. And honey, if you are quoting what "a" woman said "she" was told by EMT personnel, I doubt the veracity of her statement. People misconstrue things all the time and if she heard EMT personnel say it, whatever was said could have been sarcasm or said off the cuff. I wouldn't trust what I heard from her.

If not using betadine or some kind of anti-bacterial cleanser on the patient is their standard protocol and they just dive it without having a sterile field, they are either doing it wrong or begging for a malpractice suit. People take sterility seriously these days, as they should. It simply isn't safe to do it any other way.

If you have frequent UTIs, make sure cultures are done whenever a urinalysis is taken and make sure to get the results of that. As mentioned before, if there is no bacteria in the sample, it might be inflammation from IC. Let me give you a brief description of IC, in some people, the protective mucus layer surrounding the bladder does not regenerate as it should so anything acidic that goes to the bladder gets into holes in the layer and strikes a nerve ending on the other side. This causes burning, cramping, urinary frequency, urinary urge (gotta go NOW!) and pain, including back pain, vulva pain, vaginal pain and even pain from the navel to the thighs as all the nerves "talk" to each other. If you suspect you may have IC, DO NOT TAKE CRANBERRY JUICE or CRANBERRY CAPSULES. I took them for years and had what seems like endless UTIs but it turned out to be inflammation in the bladder, not infection. Cranberries are extremely acidic and when it hits the nerve it hurts like bloody hell. So unless you talk to your doc about it, don't take cranberry. If it is just a UTI, cranberry can be used to keep bacteria from sticking to the bladder walls. But make sure your doctor determines whether or not cranberry is right for you.

If you do have IC, it is recommended that you eat low-acidic foods or a low-oxalate diet, which is the same one used for vulvadynia or vulvular vestibulitis. It will prevent the burning and flares of IC. There is a product on the market called Prelief that you can take when you eat or drink something acidic and it will neutralize the acids before they reach the bladder. It runs about $15 at drugstores.

Some doctors prescribe "preventative" antibiotics for patients who get frequent UTIs. Cipro is sometimes prescribed but it's a broad-spectrum antibiotic that treats infections from multiple body systems so it's best not to use it often so you don't build a resistance to it. Macrobid or Nitrofurantoin, which is an antibiotic specifically used to treat UTIs. Doctors say to take one after intercourse (and I'm assuming cath play would be included if the doc knew you partook of it) or after any activity that may be irritating to your urethra or when a large amount of bacteria is known to be present, for example, food poisoning.

~ Dianne

I agree with you egirlky about the lack of anti-bacterial precautions being unwise.

Yes, there may be bacteria already present in the urethra and they may well be 'pushed up into the bladder' - but thats where they probably came from in the first place. It's akin to the pro-biotics manufacturers assertions about 'friendly' bacteria.

What is important in the use of external swabbing with products like Betadine is the creation of a sterile field to deal with contamination perhaps from stale urine or vaginal discharge. There is no point in creating a sterile field with catheterisation packs if the outer genitals are contaminated and remain so.

As for frequent apparent UTI's, two ladies in my life (not from Zity), including one who has never had any form of sexual relationship, both suffered from frequent UTI's - at least that's what they were diagnosed as. The diagnoses were made using the dipstick method and there were never any cultures done until I insisted on it. There was no UTI !

It was all down to not drinking enough or drinking the wrong things. One was drinking almost entirely blackcurrant juices and the acidic nature was causing the problem. I am aware of the benefits of such as cranberry juice but I wouldn't recommend them for someone who had a UTI or 'urgency' already, but strangely they are a good preventative when catheterisation or sounding are proposed.

Antibiotics had indeed been frequently prescribed - too frequently in my opinion, so that the immune system was weakened meaning more and stronger Ab's being used. All that has gone now and they rely on the colour/odour of their urine to regulate their liquid intake.

I was interested egirlky in your last paragraph where you mentioned an Ab being recommended by doctors after intercourse. For the reason in the above paragraph I wouldn't recommend this as a routine, certainly not as a prophylactic. Most Ab's anyway, except the more powerful ones, are designed to be taken as a course of tabs etc. If the parties to intercourse are clean and washed then any pain after intercourse is almost certainly due to bruising of the urethra by over enthusiastic sex. It used to be called Honeymoon Cystitis in the days way back when a womans first experience of sex was on honeymoon and it was a morning, noon and night activity with an unskilled an over excited spouse! Of course the Cystitis part of the diagnosis was a euphemism!

Okay, here is the skinny, the real skinny. No matter what all you have heard, here is the way it really is. These are today's standards, as in the last few years. I will debunk a few misconceptions.

1) Yes, paramedics can absolutely put in catheters. While it may vary by state, and sometimes I forget that Ohio's standard of practice is a lot higher than most states to start with. However, with this being said, Ohio paramedics can and do put in PICC lines in the back of a moving truck going 90 miles an hour. We can put an IV line in someone's neck and or head, yes, we can put in a Foley catheter.

2) Betadine is old school when it comes to catheters for the most part these days, aside from the fact that it stains everything, in order for betadine to be useful and make anything sterile it has to be applied heavily and has to dry completely for 5 minutes to render anything sterile. That is why you don't often find the cath kits stocked with them much anymore, but instead are stocked with 3 swap stick that contain a sterile clear liquid cleanser.

3) Putting in a catheter really is no longer considered a sterile procedure. Shocking I know, but it's true. It has been pretty much declassified as a clean procedure. Now, there isn't a lot of difference between a clean technique and a sterile one, but there are differences. It is still taught in school to be a sterile procedure, but is more likely to be taught as, "be as sterile as you can". When I was in school if your arm crossed over your sterile field closer than a foot and a half, that field was then considered dirty and you did have to start over. In reality folks, and nursing schools are finally starting to teach practical nursing, not book nursing, it is pretty much impossible to cath someone and maintain a sterile field. So by a clean technique you are still going to wipe the area correctly, get everything set up the way you want it, clean the patients genitals, then change your gloves, and those don't have to be sterile either by the way, just change them between the time you clean the patient and when you pick up that catheter. Continue to keep the catheter up off of things, use surgilube which is a sterile lube and insert the catheter. Some people are prone to UTI's in the first place. No matter what kind of sterile lube or an ATB type lube you have on the end of that cath, if your patient is prone to UTI's, then nothing you do is going to prevent that. There are probably a million people in the United States that have to cath themselves multiple times a day, or have someone do it for them so they can urinate, most of them reuse the same catheters over and over and over. Do you really think they are using sterile technique? Ummmm, that would be a big old negative Ghost Rider. A clean technique is all you need. Use common sense and you will be fine. I can honestly tell you that in my nursing career I have probably placed catheters at least 2000 times, never once have I been in a place to even be able to use sterile technique in the true sense of the word, but I always use clean technique, and not one of my patients has ever developed a UTI, knock on wood.

3) In most, or a lot of cases people, usually women who are prone to, or have gotten UTI's after being cathed get them not as a result of being cathed, well, that has a little to do with it, but the bacteria is already sitting there, up inside their urethra, just hanging out having a party. And believe it or not, you want to know what most of that bacteria usually is, it's our good friend e-coli. E-coli you say, well how can that be, e-coli is only found in your rectum. Well guess what, while the new generations such as my daughters age were taught to wipe front to back, lets face it, most women still don't. So if they are wiping back to front, they are dragging e-coli right up front, right past their urethra's, where e-coli see a hole, it's dark, it's moist, it's like the Jeffersons moving on up to the East Side.

4) Also remember, sterile technique is important, and it has it's proper place. Sterile technique used to be so critical because we didn't have the medications like Cipro to kill off the nasty bugs. We can thank Typhoid Mary for helping to push the need and importance of sterility and decontamination etc. But Mary is dead now, and we have learned a lot from her mistakes, and we continue to learn more and more everyday in the medical field, that's the beauty of it.

5) The hardest lesson to learn here, as I know it is even for us medical professionals, times change, techniques change. There are medical advancement happening on a daily basis, lots of them. Often times it's very hard to let go of the past, to let go of what was ingrained in you since you were little, as being the right thing to do, or how things should be done. Because of medical advancement happening all the time, not to mention how much we are learning about the human body on a daily basis, medical treatments change all the time. 20 years ago everyone thought putting butter on a burn was the best thing you could do. Yes I know, you are laughing, but people my age were raised to believe that, why? Because we didn't know any better. But as our medical knowledge of the human body grew, so did our way of treating it. Another good example of this off the top of my head, there is a form of herpes called Herpatic Whitlow. For some odd reason something like 90 percent of the people who have it happen to be medical professionals. It only comes on your fingers. Less than 30 years ago, the medical treatment/cure for that was to just cut your finger off. Well today we know better. 10 years ago if I had had the two kidney stones I had removed 2 years ago, they would have had to have gone through my back, sliced my kidney open and pulled them out that way. I would have been in the hospital for a good 6 weeks, and off work for probably 6 months. But 2 years ago they went inside me with a laser and blasted out 2 of them. I was home the next morning and doing the wild thing with doc later that night.

So the point I am trying to get at here is, stop, listen, and take the time to learn what's going on today in the correct procedures concerning medical things. It is a constantly changing, revolving, and advancing science. So relax folks, have fun in your medical play adventures, stay clean, be smart, and don't be an idiot. Medicine is 90 percent history, and 10 percent common sense.

Mashie

That was a great post!

Thank you. Since I will be cathing a woman soon, it's nice to see this. Actually, a woman who sounds herself told me similar advice she got from an EMT. But when I discuss this with others, they insist this advice is totally wrong & dangerous. It's good to hear it again from another very experienced medical person.

Thanks for this great post. A good explanation why Clean Intermittant Catherization is safe. As long as you keep it Clean