Posture Photos

I remember hearing a while back about all the Ivy league schools taking nude "posture photos" of each freshman. Does anyone know more about these exams, or better yet, has anyone had one themselves?

I've read about these too... they sound like the ultimate in humiliation really, but kind of an exciting idea too...

A japanese photographer did copy the style (loosely) and took photos of hundreds of women for 'art' in similar poses to the posture pictures.

I'm a photographer, I might replicate them with myself someday!

Qetu, about 10/15 years ago, this was mentioned on a tv progamme over here, in connection with Hillary Clinton. I can't recall most of what was said but I couldn't help but look at the calendar to see if it was April 1st! This was a serious item, though, albeit a short one.

Inspired by your post, I've just Googled 'US ivy league posture photos' - it yielded 20,300 results! Wikipedia has an entry on it, and many other pages are links to newspaper articles, many of which refer to 'scandal'.

I'm off to do a bit more research.

Could these be what you are looking for?

http://rapidshare.com/files/258532565/dressed-undressed-big-gallery-1_Folder.zip

http://rapidshare.com/files/258532566/dressed-undressed-big-gallery-2_Folder.zip

http://rapidshare.com/files/258532567/dressed-undressed-big-gallery-3_Folder.zip

Those photos are great! All of these pictures look staged though, I would really love to see some of the original posture photos.

Yes, I remember this story as well. Apparently the schools did destroy them. There would be quite a bit of liability, I guess, if they ever got out. Sort of bizarre. I mean, imagine the freshmen. It seems that they may have thought,"man, nude pictures, what is this all about?"

Oh how fun that would be. freshman orientation, finding your dorm, finding out who your roomate is, finding out how horrible the cafeteria food is, and then having to go strip nude, and get photographed. waiting in a line with other girls in your underwear, getting to the front of the line, handing over your ID, then pulling the last bit of covering off, and standign on a small platform, asnd some anonymous photographer clicking away as you stand there, everythign hanging out for everyone in line to see. that sounds like oh so much fun. I might have to include that in my next play exam.\

-Nicole

There was a doctor or doctors behind the 'studies,' (Kinsey, Masters and Johnson? I haven't looked up who) who talked the ivy league colleges at the time to letting them be done. Keep in mind that this was a period in which men went to their colleges, women went to their colleges and intramural swim meets were in the nude as was the YMCA and NYAC, as if any of this made sense. Oh, the claim that material from swimsuits can clog the pool drains. Men of a certain age who were drafted will recall instances of naked induction physicals done in groups whereas now the most private parts of them are done privately.

Here is a quote that I took from a website on posture photos.

'the pictures were actually made for anthropological research: "The reigning school of the time, presided over by E. A. Hooton of Harvard and W. H. Sheldon" - who directed an institute for physique studies at Columbia University - "held that a person's body, measured and analyzed, could tell much about intelligence, temperament, moral worth and probable future achievement. The inspiration came from the founder of social Darwinism, Francis Galton, who proposed such a photo archive for the British population."

While the popular conception of Sheldonism has it that he divided human beings into three types - skinny, nervous "ectomorphs"; fat and jolly "endomorphs"; confident, buffed "mesomorphs" - what he actually did was somewhat more complex. He believed that every individual harbored within him different degrees of each of the three character components. By using body measurements and ratios derived from nude photographs, Sheldon believed he could assign every individual a three-digit number representing the three components, components that Sheldon believed were inborn - genetic - and remained unwavering determinants of character regardless of transitory weight change. In other words, physique equals destiny.

It was the pop-psych flavor of the month for a while; Cosmopolitan magazines published quizzes about how to understand your husband on the basis of somatotype. Ecto-, meso- and endomorphic have entered the language, although few scientists these days give credence to Sheldon's claims. "Half the textbooks in [his] area fail to take [him] seriously," remarked one academician in a 1992 paper on Sheldon's legacy. Others, like Hans Eysenck, the British psychologist, have suggested that Sheldon wasn't really doing science at all, that he was just winging it, that there was "little theoretical foundation for the observed findings."

These photos were also perhaps an off-shoot of various types of anthropological photos that were very popular at the beginning of the 20th century, in which it was customary to compare body types and physique of the many native ethnic groups then under colonial rule by European nations. Anthropologists would make detailed naked photos of all kinds of people, order them into some kind of hierarchy which invariably ended up with north Europeans leading the bunch.

These photos might also be accompanied by line drawings of the same naked subjects and bodily proportions and sizes were described or detailed into making some kind of physiological point.

Such books of anthropological photos and 'studies' were quite popular and sold very well, to professionals such as doctors, lawyers, notaries and such.

Taking posture photos of American college students is a sort of off-shoot of this type of study. But where previously ethnic types were the distinguishing factor about which comparisons were made on a general scale, the posture photos studies were meant to study the differences between body types within an ethnic group within one nation, to see if any generalizing statements could be made as to intelligence, achievements or moral character depending upon body types.

Here are a few examples of both photos and drawings

http://www.zity.biz/index.php?mx=album;ox=showcat;done;c=4156

Clothed-unclothed is always nice

T do find these photos strangely arousing. I know it's the visual of the subject clothed and unclothed side by side. I always often do this is real life (as probably do most men). It is sometimes very surprising which women in photos whom I find arousing clothed, but not so much so unclothed.

Posture pictures are one of my favorite topics...I like that they are so "clinically detached". The subject simply is just a body, assuming the required positions. You can tell, that like in exams, there is an effort to de-personalize a very personally exposing act.

Great suggestion for a future visit with my med-fet nurse.

[quote author=hackjuan link=topic=35111.msg375162#msg375162 date=1312938416]

Great suggestion for a future visit with my med-fet nurse.

[/quote]

I´m surprised that I don´t read more about posture photo taking or taking body measurements during playdoc sessions. I would think it gives a scope to engage in something quite different than doing all kinds of penetrations into body orifices or simple playing around with genitals. Fun enough for certain of course - but a little variation can add some spice to things.

In some medical textbooks and other comparative anthropological studies, I´ve occasionaly come across some very unusual types of measurements, such as for instance the sacro-pubic or sacro-rectal distance - which is the distance from the cocyx to respectively the female introitus and the anus.

Or you can think up quite a number of interesting measurements starting from the anus or nipples. And then you can be certain that some very embarrassing positions will need to be assumed to take these down accurately.

Yes, Sheldon was the name I read on the internet as being responsible for that series of photos of young students from Yale, Smith, Amherst, Wellsley and many more. The interesting fact was that the photos were never used...they existed but for no apparent reason and wasted away in drawers and cabinets seldom attracting interest.

I'm curious as to why the Tanner Stages of Puberty development never got much photo play. Medical science has come a long way but nothing works better than comparitive analysis.

[quote author=polly_3ox link=topic=35111.msg377394#msg377394 date=1313848923]

The interesting fact was that the photos were never used...they existed but for no apparent reason and wasted away in drawers and cabinets seldom attracting interest. [/quote]

To do any meaningful statistical analysis from such photos, I would think that the number of students photographed would have to be quite large to begin with. But since the studies were meant to predictive - meaning that body type and body characteristics were supposed to be indicative of future development and achievements - that also meant that this would of itself need to be a very long term study, probably in the half century range. For how otherwise could one make any kind of decision how a particular group of people had achieved any noteworthy goals or achievements in their lifetime?

Add to that the necessary time needed to photograph a substantially large number of people, preferably over a span of time and this would probably easily add up to 75 years or more.

Most likely scientific attitudes to the study of morphology changed during the passage of years and little interest was retained in the studies for any number of reasons.

A nice variation on the posture posing theme would be to have a group session. Multiple subjects lined up, side by side, all assuming the same positions at the same time. This could easily be used to study the natural variation in human anatomy. Also, just think about what it would be like, in a line like that, one body out of many.....

At the University of California, Berkeley, 1961 all the entering students had physical exams. We were ordered to strip to shorts & socks, got weighed/measured, & had lab specimens taken. After the doctor examined us we were told to “get our picture taken.” I thought it was for the student body card; the coed at the desk had me sign something, obviously a consent that I didn’t read. I was sent behind a screen where a woman in a white coat told me to strip! Funny how having to take off my ring and watch made me feel really naked. She took the tiny basket with my clothes & led me into a small room with a rotating stand and backdrop. When I got on the stand I faced a camera & flash equipment. She posed me, arms straight, hands straight and hands parallel to the legs. They took 3 quick photos. The stand rotated so it was front, side, back.

Readers may want to know why I’d let them take my picture naked. At that point I’d been ordered around by women in white coats for an hour, waited in line with only my shorts on, and when I saw the doctor, there was a nurse present & I was exposed to her. I suppose that if I were fully dressed I might have refused. But being almost naked, & young I acquiesced to the orders of an older woman in an authoritative white coat.

A bit more on posture pictures. Sheldon did publish a number of books on the human physique - some with pictures but none fully nude. I have in hand Varieties in Human Physique by Sheldon, Stevens and Tucker 1940. This tome was pretty much the organizational manual for his forthcoming work. I don't know if you've discussed the discovery of the images but there was a story (possibly urban myth) that one Saturday afternoon a janitor discovered box upon box of these images long forgotten. He summoned a dean who recognized what this was and ordered them destroyed - the janitor purloined a good number of these which are "out there." Years ago when the WWW first came to the fore I saw a link with the word Posture_Pictures associated with a University of Cincinnati .edu suffix. I searched in vain for it. I often wonder if it was a college prank. Here in Ohio is an organization called the Fels Institute. I think they do contract anthropology for like furniture designers and clothes mfg. I didn't trace the links provided above but imagine they allude to both the Los Angeles series of 100 and a like Japanese 100 both by the same photographer. I often wondered how he went about enrolling the women. All are in the standard anatomical position of course - all but one! Now the curious mind asks - why did that pass editorial scrutiny? I probably have a good number of the American series - at one time I had all. A couple other books which might be of interest for measuring projects are one on the measurement of stewardesses by the FAA and a second (statistically right) done by NASA. The question of Tanner Index is another topic for another day. Its widely used here in the US but I wonder England where he worked. There is a massive elephant folio sized volume published by him. So large it couldn't fit on any library shelf - I never had the urge to open it. DrLaennec calling it quits for the night

I would have loved to be a posture study with others like that. I've seen the Los Angeles and Japanese versions of these. They are tastefully done.

There was at least one major "posture photo" project in Japan. The girls were photographed fully dressed and fully nude. I do not know the details or the purpose of the project.

As to the Sheldon work in the USA, my understanding is that most of the photos were destroyed pursuant to feminist complaining. The destruction is a shame since medical historians are able to discern a lot from close study of such consistent and non-retouched photos. Undoubtedly some of the photos still survive, having been stolen along the way.

My understanding also is that many of the photos of the females were done by male grad students or pre-med students. Must have been very embarrassing for the female subjects in those more prudish times.

There was at least one major "posture photo" project in Japan. The girls were photographed fully dressed and fully nude. I do not know the details or the purpose of the project.

By now, there have undoubtedly been many posture photo projects done all around the world - but most will have been done for photographic, artistic purposes. Not for medical or (pseudo) scientific reasons. A set of such photos would be something you might find in some types of conceptual art projects for instance. It would not be for scientific reasons.

It´s apparently not that difficult to get people to volunteer for these kind of sessions, which are usually clothed and undressed. Which is once again not really the kind of posture photos the old eugenicists like Sheldon were thinking of. I don´t think they were interested in clothed bodies, and by and large that is just what most modern posture photos show - the same individual dressed and then naked.

I´ve also seen other kinds of posture photos, which were published in medical books during the beginning of the 20th century. These usually consisted of frontal nude photos, often of various ethnic ´types´ from all around the world. These would then be accompanied by line drawings made from these photos, making not only a normal outline drawing of the body in question, but also a schematic which connected various ´important´ points of the bodies. The result was a stick-like figure which was then studied and classified according to a set of probably nonsensical notions and presuppositions about bodily morphology and esthetic ideals. Needless to say, these studies usually tended to end up describing Nordic-Scandinavian female bodies as the sum of all physical beauty and perfection.

There was more than just a hint of what would later evolve into a listing of ethnic groups into racially acceptable and superior/lesser categories.

I have had posture photos taken, although not at university, but during a medical exam at a clinic.

It happened when I was young, as part of a posture assessment exam, which I was having as my parents thought I might have scoliosis.

I had to strip completely naked and stand with my feet together and my arms by my sides. They took full length nude photos of me from the front, both sides and the back.

It was incredibly embarrassing at the time. I possibly should have protested a bit more and maybe asked if I could at least keep my underpants on, but I had no idea in advance that this was going to happen and I was just so surprised that I just went along with it.

It is a good memory to have now, though.

I got to see the pictures at my next visit, along with my parents (that was embarrassing).

My Rolfer used to use underwear photos to evaluate postural changes from session to session. They were Polaroids that were kept in my chart.

I used to have a large collection of classic posture pics from the interwebs. They're gone now with a corrupt hard drive. Le sigh.

I know in medical studies in UK on certain levels photos taken of patients for assesssment

Link no work. Good to read about

here are some on the zity galleries ..

http://www.zity.biz/index.php?mx=gallery;ox=showalbum;ax=4156