High Enemas

In the late 60's and early 70's I frequently went for colonics and enemas administered by Mildred P. Burgess near Kenmore Square in Boston. She could get a colon tube to a least the sigmoid flexure and often into the transverse colon. I consider my capacity to be 3 quarts, but on more then one occasion Mildred refilled the bag from a waiting pitcher and I am certain she had 4 quarts in me. And those were the only times I achieved that volume, and I was not uncomfortable. The only downside after these large volume enemas was frequent copious urination for several hours following.

I frequently use either a 4 or 5 foot colon tube, fully inserted, for a deep enema!!!

I once saw a Dr OzTV show where he spoke about high enema's with a colon tube. He said it flushes out the good bacteria that protect the colon increasing the chances of colon disorders and disease.

Anyone hear anything about this or saw the show?

THIS IS TRUE.

Normal feces is 20-50% bacteria by weight depending on your diet.

If you do a few enemas or do enemas until clear, you will have VERY few bacteria remaining.

Susie-- I will not argue with your numbers, but I will point out that an enema will take out the bad microflora along with the good, so the net ratio remains the same, only the amount has changed, so I do not see how you are any worse off for the enema.

hankb

Of course the enema takes out the bad with the good, but when the good are gone, the bad can gain a foothold. In the "race" to populate the colon, the bad bacteria may win at times.

"Good" and "Bad" bacteria don't necessarily reproduce at the same rate, some bacteria are more fragile than others and there are critical amounts of pathogens needed to overwhelm the host immune system to cause disease.

Susie,

Are you saying that taking high enemas could be dangerous? I really enjoy taking a couple of 3-4 quart enemas every couple of weeks.

Susie--When the good are gone, so are the bad, and the survivors probably have the same proportions that they were before the flood. These depleted populations have equal opportunities to flourish and probably will in the same proportions that they were present before. Neither has an inherent ability to dominate, and the good ones could just as easily gain a foothold. If you really want to avoid problems, do not do enemas at all, high or low, certainly not frequently

hankb

Susie--When the good are gone, so are the bad, and the survivors probably have the same proportions that they were before the flood. These depleted populations have equal opportunities to flourish and probably will in the same proportions that they were present before. Neither has an inherent ability to dominate, and the good ones could just as easily gain a foothold. If you really want to avoid problems, do not do enemas at all, high or low, certainly not frequently

hankb

What you say is only a supposition. You would need a bacteriological study to test it.

Bacterial species do NOT reproduce at the same rate.

I support hankb. If hankb's is supposition, so is Sussie's post#38.

Why is "the good are gone, the bad can gain a foothold."?

Vise versa, could it be "the bad are gone, the good can gain a foothold."?

So neither is true, unless bad overwhelms good in terms of its strength per individual.

The problems start when you selectively remove organisms. This is precisely the problem that causes one of the nastier hospital acquired infection, C difficele. Antibiotics used to control other infections are not particularly selective, they will kill off any sensitive organism. The result is that only the anti-biotic resistant bacterial like C difficele survive. Absent any competition from other organisms and an abundant food supply, you get overgrowth of organisms like C Diff. wtih very unpleasant consequences.

Mattheww50 is correct. Antibiotics which cannot touch C.diff wipe out less harmful organisms allowing the C.diff to run wild.

I support hankb. If hankb's is supposition, so is Sussie's post#38.

Why is "the good are gone, the bad can gain a foothold."?

Vise versa, could it be "the bad are gone, the good can gain a foothold."?

So neither is true, unless bad overwhelms good in terms of its strength per individual.

Because THEY ARE PATHOGENS.

That's how it works. Various bacteria will regrow at different rates and it is erroneous to think they all grow at the same rate.

I stand by my post #38 you refer to.

I'm not saying large or frequent enemas are necessarily dangerous or harmful, but in a compromised individual, there could be problems with the repopulation of colonic bacteria.

A "traditional" high enema of at least 4 qts (Jethro Kloss in the book Back to Eden has very detailed good information) was intended to clean out the entire large bowel - as in ascending, transverse, descending, and rectum. In doing this you do risk substantially altering your intestinal flora. I have done many until clear cleanouts over the years both for colonoscopies and for a healthy restart. I usually take six bisacodyl tablets either the night before or in the early AM and then take baking soda buffered enemas until clear, then the rest of the day I eat only yogurt and other soft bland foods to build a good flora. As the other posts mention I imagine that a person in very poor health or had certain conditions this may not be a good idea, I however have had no ill effects and many positive.

No need to over work it but I have always thought a high enema had a colon tube that went high into the colon and introduced a high volume of solution.

A "high enema" is called such because of where the solution goes, not how far the tube is inserted.

On this C. Diff. question. Since my surgery, chemo. & radiation for a large villous adenoma, my flora is now changed. Every time I took Cipro, or a cephalosporin for respiratory infection, I got raging diarrhea due to C. Diff. My Fam Doc. started Rx'ing Flagyl to kill the C. Diff. and it worked, along with the other antibiotic. But he became worried that one day Flagyl would no longer work and that leaves only Vancomycin to stop the C. Diff.

He suggested I try a probiotic with the antibiotic to see how that might repopulate the bowel flora and keep the C. Diff. in check. It works great! I just have to make sure the 2 drugs are separated by a few hours to keep them from canceling each other out.

My C. Diff. only flairs up if I take a broad spectrum antibiotic, not from taking multiple enemas. Be that as it may, I often take probiotics just to repopulate the gut flora.

I don't do "enema marathons", but stick with no more than 2-3 times/wk. and usually only 1-2 fill-ups.

I know that many elderly people have died from Clostridia Difficele.

@jimmy -- Including my grandma. C-diff got her at age 94 when she was otherwise totally likely to make 100+. After she got home from the hospital she developed uncontrollable diarrhea. On Christmas day she could still walk with just someone by her side. On New Years day she couldn't roll over in bed without assistance, and she died three days later. C-diff is a quick efficient killer.

I would like to experience a high enema. I have enjoyed enemas since I was a teenager.

Take a 2-3 quart enema and BINGO, you will have had a high enema.

With this emphasis on not flushing out or destroying good, and bad, bacteria, it bothers me that the standard enema seems to be a SSE. Soap will kill a lot of the bacteria as well as flush the remaining ones out. It also flushes out the mucous lining in the colon, leaving you with no protection at all and no medium for the bacteria, good or bad, to re-establish themselves. I would advise staying away from soap enemas altogether. Use only tap water, possibly with a bit of salt or baking soda for any enema, but especially a high enema. This is good advice for people who do not do SSE frequently, for you have no way of knowing which kind of bacteria will re-establish itself. For those who do it frequently, whatever "frequently" means, neither kind will have an opportunity to re-establish itself and cause good or bad things to happen. However, it still is not a good idea to flush out the mucous lining in any event.

hankb

2 1/2 quarts of plain warm water has always been my favorite enema.

Take a yogurt retention enema at the end of your series and you get a head start on good bacteria populating your colon.

Way before the time of internet connections, the health food stores had a pamphlet called, "High Enema". In it, they told you to drink 3 quarts of water as quickly as possible.

"Steven S" says that it might take 4 trips to the bathroom to expel all of a high enema. He's probably right, using only mild solutions. When I've given myself high enemas with a strong soap solution, I have the main expulsion, followed by a feeling of incompleteness. After about a minut or so, sitting on the receptacle, I have a very noticeable, pleasurable cramp, followed by expulsion of "mud". I'm guessing that this is the cecal contents being purged by the laxative in the enema. After that, I don't remember having to go back for significant expulsions.

Lots of posts to this thread that is many years old. The second response by Susie pretty much answered the question- when the solution reaches high into the colon that is a high enema and its not how high or deep the nozzle goes.

I love doing high enemas but I can only do them about once a week because it takes a couple of days for my system to recover. Most of my enemas are high enemas because I love the long sessions or multiple bags.

If you are an enema enthusiast, you are probably doing high enemas.

Every enema session I have ends with a high enema, usually 4 quarts sometimes with the colon tube. The high enema gives me that feeling of being completely cleaned out...

I have found that after putting 4-5 qts of plain tap water, I cannot expel all of it just by trying. So, I massage my abdomen along the line of where the colon is, working the water from the inlet end to the outlet end. I may do this a few times until I am satisfied that I have gotten most of the water out. It seems to work because I pass a lot less urine in the hours afterwards.

hankb

Can we actually agree on what the term ''high enema" actually means??

Is it simply a large enema??

A colon tube enema??

What does it really mean??

That's why I don't use the term.

LisaK said

Can we actually agree on what the term ''high enema" actually means??

Is it simply a large enema??

A colon tube enema??

What does it really mean??

That's why I don't use the term.

It means what the medical dictionary says it means. It is a large enema that goes high/throughout the large intestine. It has no bearing on the nozzle or delivery tube or equipment.

Damn! I never considered those options. I figured it to be a wine enema after a few beers! Jokes aside what"s the cure for replacing good bacteria?