Double standard in pediatric offices - Input?

I really had to think about this. I can remember being completely undressed by my mother for exams and she was always present. Later, when I became a "big boy' and went back alone for my exams and routine doctor visits; I was always told to remove all my clothes from the time I entered the exam room. I was always nude before any part of the exam began; including being weighed and body temperature taken. This was SOP until I left for college. I lived in a small town during the 50's and 60's. It was just the way things were; at least in my experience.

This is actually how it was always done at my pediatricians office

I do think that this would not have been unusual. The double standard in this regard worked against a male. Been there and I can tell you that it exists. There is no malice intended just an assumption that "us guys" have no sense of concern!

To reacitivate this thread:

In Germany there is a teen checkup between 12 and 14 years. On an information website about this examination there are frequently asked questions for parents. One question is "Does my child have to undress during the J1 examination?"

Answer: Yes, this is part of an examination. (…) If your daughter prefers, she can leave her underwear on of course. And you can tell your son that it is completely normal for a doctor to have someone standing in front of him in their underwear or naked." (source: https://www.wirfuersimpfen.de/die-j1-untersuchung-was-wird-beim-gesundheitscheck-fur-jugendliche-gemacht)

So there is a decison for girls but not for boys? For them being naked is normal? And this on an offical website

At my pediatrician office it was pretty much the same for boys and girls. Boys undressed down to their underwear, as did girls. When they got to be teenagers it was bra and panties for the girls. Both got rectal temperature taken. There were also lots of open exam room doors for both sexes. I really never noticed any different treatment for boys and girls where I went. Actually, it was pretty embarrassing for both.

I never recall being completely undressed as a kid, just lowered my underwear for the hernia check. Could the double standard, where it seemed to exist, be because most doctors back in the 50’s and 60’s were male and felt more comfotable giving girls more modesty? Just a thought.

We all undressed down to our underwear at out pediatrician. We did have rectal temperature. There was also the occasional open door where we saw and were seen.

At my pediatrician office it was pretty much the same for boys and girls. Boys undressed down to their underwear, as did girls. When they got to be teenagers it was bra and panties for the girls. Both got rectal temperature taken. There were also lots of open exam room doors for both sexes. I really never noticed any different treatment for boys and girls where I went. Actually, it was pretty embarrassing for both.

In Germany there is a teen checkup between 12 and 14 years. On an information website about this examination there are frequently asked questions for parents. One question is "Does my child have to undress during the J1 examination?"

[...]

So there is a decison for girls but not for boys? For them being naked is normal? And this on an offical website

Usually at the beginning of the examination at that age, you are asked about this part and taking a closer look at your private parts later is a possibility. However, as fare as I know, it is your choice and it isn’t forced and you don’t have to have this part done, especially if there are no prior issues.

If you decide to have this part done, as a girl, you are not completely naked. At least that’s my personal experience from back at the days. I however can’t speak for boys in this situation and it might vary from doctor to doctor, but I talked to a few people over the years about this topic when it came up and some confirmed it, while others couldn’t.

I guess, it also depends on your age and how thoroughly the examination is and what is actually done, because a quick look into panties or underwear is definitely something almost everyone has experienced at on point in time (that’s my experience at least).

It is also quite interesting seeing possible differences mentioned on an official website and everybody has something different to say about it and there personal experience.

In Germany there is a teen checkup between 12 and 14 years. On an information website about this examination there are frequently asked questions for parents. One question is "Does my child have to undress during the J1 examination?"

Answer: Yes, this is part of an examination. (…) If your daughter prefers, she can leave her underwear on of course. And you can tell your son that it is completely normal for a doctor to have someone standing in front of him in their underwear or naked." (source: https://www.wirfuersimpfen.de/die-j1-untersuchung-was-wird-beim-gesundheitscheck-fur-jugendliche-gemacht)

This is a great find. When we had our big mandatory physicals for kids in sports (this was in the 1980s, when these physicals were still relatively detailed), the agency/department that did them sent forms home to parents along with an info packet that mentioned no street clothes would be allowed, but girls would be allowed to wear some basic, loose-fitting clothing whereas "boys will be examined without clothing." It specified that we would be allowed "minimal clothing" for parts of the visit that were in more open areas and while "moving from room to room for various parts of the examination" but it was very clear that some parts of it required boys to be nude. It had a line something like "boys in athletics programs are accustomed to being undressed in the locker room, so this should not be a problem. However, please be sure that your son understands that this will be expected."

This is a great find. When we had our big mandatory physicals for kids in sports (this was in the 1980s, when these physicals were still relatively detailed), the agency/department that did them sent forms home to parents along with an info packet that mentioned no street clothes would be allowed, but girls would be allowed to wear some basic, loose-fitting clothing whereas "boys will be examined without clothing." It specified that we would be allowed "minimal clothing" for parts of the visit that were in more open areas and while "moving from room to room for various parts of the examination" but it was very clear that some parts of it required boys to be nude. It had a line something like "boys in athletics programs are accustomed to being undressed in the locker room, so this should not be a problem. However, please be sure that your son understands that this will be expected."

@JakeNewYork, so were you ever subject to that exam that you speak of? If so, what happened?

There was no double standard in the pediatric office I went too. Nobody got gowns. I overheard some of the girls talking at school. Everybody basically went to the same big pediatric practice. I still get butterflies now when I drive past the build if I happen to be in my hometown although it has long since become a dermatology clinic.

It was same for us. We all stripped down to underpants, boys and girls and didn’t know what a gown was. I’m close with a cousin the same age. We went to different doctors. We talked about it at the time and was the same for her.

There was no double standard in the pediatric office I went too. Nobody got gowns. I overheard some of the girls talking at school. Everybody basically went to the same big pediatric practice. I still get butterflies now when I drive past the build if I happen to be in my hometown although it has long since become a dermatology clinic.

It seems apparent these double standards are actually quite common but I have never witnessed incidents of this nature.(Realistically speaking who has witnessed such double standards as medical exams are very private affairs)

When I was a HS Senior I was informing my girlfriend (yes I actually got a GF despite my challenges) I was scheduled for my annual physical in a few days. As the discussion progressed we discovered we were both patients of the same doctor. She rubbed my shoulders and said "Dr. K is going to get a striptease show then gets to feel you up while you are lying down in your underwear and worse yet you HAVE to comply. I am insanely jealous. I would love to be her assistant during your exam. Hell, I would settle to be a fly on the wall, you stud. Right now you look so good in your gym shorts and shirtless (I ran Cross Country and played Lacrosse so I was very fit) but the very idea of watching you get a check up turns me on to no end " I asked her what she goes through during her physical. I was surprised she goes through much of the same. Underwear only and braless from the very start as she has a breast examination. The doctor is present as she disrobes. Neither of us were given a gown.

I cannot speak to the exact reasoning for this, but I can share that when I was at the pediatrician for a checkup or a cold, I always had to undress to my underpants once in the exam room. That lasted until the nurse and my mom agreed that a rectal temperature was best for me, then I was told to turn onto my tummy and slightly raise my hips so my nurse could take down my briefs. I was anxious and quiet at that moment.

The double standard was alive and well in the late 90s. Once I hit puberty I was always told to remove all of my clothes by the nurse as soon as I entered the exam room and was completely nude for the duration of the exam. My sisters went to the same pediatrician and (according to my parents) were not asked to remove any clothing, except in very brief cases where something specific was being examined.

Surprisingly this double standard exists even today. I am a medical receptionist (planning to go into the medical field in the future ) and I currently work at a pediatric practice 3 days per week. The way the office is set up I can often hear what is being said in the first two offices located right behind the front desk .

I started working at this practice a few months ago (around the summer rush for school physicals ) and adolescent males were usually instructed to remove all of their clothing once the LNA had finished rooming them .

The examinations were typically performed by one of the NPs ( 3 in the practice and all are female ) . I might inquire to one why she has the adolescent males naked to begin with and if they seem embarassed by this .

I would certainly like to hear her answer if you do ask. I imagine there are others here who would like to hear that too.

I am also very interested by the answer of the receptionist , especially for summer school physicals since she said that the male teenagers were required to strip completely for these exams by each of the female three NPs working in the medical center.

I presume that if it is true, it is not so common as it was in the past but I am not shocked, : why boys must be treated exactly like girls, they are not same gender and have not in all situations the same feelings, so some differences can exist and it is one of them which seems to me valuable.

The guys who were boys and had sisters in their family can remember how they were examined compared to how their sisters were examined by the same doctor - male or female - when they were children or pre-teenagers or even teenagers, and they are a lot of relations where they said that it was different, sometimes they were stark naked for all the exam while it was not the case for their sisters, or they were examined naked in front of their sisters while they might get out of the exam room when it was time to examin their sisters, or they were weighted naked and not their sisters, or they had rectal temperature a more long time being older than their sisters because it was more accurate and it was not a concern to make a boy expose his butt for a rectal temperature while it was for a girl.

There can be a lot of explanations and sometimes the medical persons were only applying the requirements mentioned on the medical forms which could be different as it was said for boys and girls with nudity required for boys, even for weigh -ins, while it was not for girls, or gowns were not provided to boys, or there was the mention that they need just an underwear to walk through corridors in a medical center if necessary. ( at least they were not naked !), it could be embarrassing depending on ages if they met in the corridor other persons , especially mothers and daughters.( I guess that the daughters giggled if they saw a boy in just a brief )

It could be logical : why take in account the modesty of boys who would be naked any way very soon when they reached the age for draft examinations in all countries who had still a mandatory military service,? and even after why since they were more used to nudity by practicing sport.

The set up for group exams was applied for other examinations of boys students for instance for sport exams and very often the set up of examinations for boys was inspired by military methods at least with old school male doctors but female doctors did often the same ! ( in some countries they were involved at military exams and knew how thet were carried on with young men or they had heard about them or be learned during medical studies to treat diffferently boys and girls) It was well known in family that boys could have group exams without much privacy like it was well known that they were naked at draft examinations.

Besides it was easier to check the genitals of boys when they were naked since they were external, it is a fact that boys could not deny, it could justify the requirement of nudity for them !

And it was admitted that boys did not need the same level of respect of their privacy because they were supposed to be less modest ( it was true for some boys who were comfortable with nudity )and less shy towards nudity than girls, especially in groups ( with shower in group for sport and so on ) and more over they might not be too shy because it was not considered as a manly attitude.

So I am quite sure even if I was in an only boys school and if I had no sister that there was in a recent past very often double standard rules appplied to examinations of boys and girls.

I am sure that the nurses would think that the nudity of boys was normal, there was nothing sadistic in that feeling, it was just an idea spreadly admitted in the society, and also in a certain way the idea that a nurse, at least if she was a middle age woman, was a substitute mother in the medical field and that a mother cared so much about a son that she could see him in the nude like when he was born !

When there was an option in the medical field between going faster to perform an exam (even if was just to win a very short time) which meaned no privacy for the boys and the respect of their privacy and modesty, it was very soon decided by adults -women as well as men- to choose the first option for boys while they chose the second one for girls. It was a reality, not a fantasy!

@Racefan19

@JakeNewYork, so were you ever subject to that exam that you speak of? If so, what happened?

Yes, I had the big group physical every year for sports. It was sometimes done at the school, and other times done at a state health office. Both places, the routine was largely the same. you went to different areas for different parts of it. At school, these were areas divided off in the gym and also in the training room and nurse's office. At the state health center, it was a series of different rooms.

"Jake New york "

I presume that you have already explained in an other forum how your physicals were carried on but can you repeat it here to have some details about the set up , if you were naked in group or not and for how long time and in presence of whom ?

and if it was different at school and at the state health medical center and also different at different ages ?

@esaterman

"Jake New york "

I presume that you have already explained in an other forum how your physicals were carried on but can you repeat it here to have some details about the set up , if you were naked in group or not and for how long time and in presence of whom ?

and if it was different at school and at the state health medical center and also different at different ages ?

These were annual, and sometimes 2 times a year, from grade 5 through grade 12 (approx. age 11 through age 1😎. There was some variation in how they had us clothed over the years, and there was even once some tension about it after one or more parents complained about the undressing (these were mandatory physicals at the time, if you wanted to be in sports, you had to have it done and going to your own doctor did not substitute for it). At the school, they usually had us wear gym shorts between stations and in the hallways (this was done on a weekend, so no one would have seen). But a few times, they had us just wear underpants, athletic supporter, or a towel. In a couple of stations, especially the final one, you had to have everything off.

If it was done at the state health medical center, it was a bit more involved and longer as they did some more tests that were not possible at the school (chest Xray, body mass, even allergy testing sometimes). At that place, they had an area for us to change out of our street clothes and we were given a kind of disposable robe. Not a gown, exactly. It opened and tied in front more like a robe and had no sleeves. We wore that in hallways and between tests and took it off or opened it up as needed. [EDIT: "Disposable" is not the correct word. They were not paper robes. They were flimsy cloth robes. There was a big bin for us to toss them into when we were done.]

We didn't have double standards in our school exams in hie we dressed, boys and girls both down to underwear for our exams, but girls undressed in the gym, whereas boy undressed in the changing room and walked down the corridor in our boxers to the gym. If girls saw us in the corridor in our boxers they wolf whistled at us but it didn't bother me, it turned me on knowing they were seeing me undressed like that and it gave me a hard on straight away.

"Jake new york "

I don't know when it happens for you but I presume that it was not too old because I doubt that in a far past some parents would have complained about the undressing of boys at school physicals for sport.

I think that the parents were very submissive to authorities, from school or medical ones, and convinced that they knew perfectly how to carry on physical examinations, they agreed easily with the idea that the lack of privacy was due to the necessity to go fast without losing too much time in undressing,even if it was very often a false argument, and more over they did not mind a lot about the modesty of boys. If the physicals were compulsory for doing sport, normally they did not intervene with the set up decided by adults autorities in charge.

At least it was like that at my time in the 60's , I presume that it has changed a lot graduallly.

As regards the physicals at school, I find strange that they were carried on on week ends rather than casual days, it was a guarantee for you that thre was nobody else than medical persons to see you walking from stations to stations and in hallways ? ( for instance girls like in the messsage from "Scotty 95" or teachers or members of the staff of the school)

As regards the fact that the physicals were not optional and could be done by a private doctor, it was the same for us, even for casual yearly school physical examinations, they were compulsory and no students could avoid them, a medical form filled by a familiy or private doctor was not valuable , we might be examined by the doctor hired by the school in presence of the school nurse. I a certain way it was normal, al boys were equal for the physical examinations at school!

you said that generaly you wore gym shorts to go from a station to an other one at school ,so it was not too much embarrassing, may be more if you were in just underwears or worst athletic supporters ( it is what you called jockstraps in the United states with the butt comletely exposed, including the cleft ?) or a towel ( did it mean that you were naked below the towel )

Who decided of your state of undressing ? was it linked to the age of the boys ?

Did you were instructed to undress more at the last grades from 9 to 12th grade or was it just a unexpected decision without any consideration of the age of boys ? if you were weearing only athletic supporters was it required on a school letter or a form that you came that day of physical wearing athletic supporters ?

what was for you the most embarrassing ? to walk almost naked in corridors or to strip completely at the last station ?

was it a group exam for undressing and examination or just for undressing ?or did you have some privacy at each station ?or at least for the more intimate examinations ? in how much stations were you stark naked ? did you have still to walk from a station to an other one after having removed your underwear or were you allowed to put it again ? were you alone when the exams were performed in the nude or was it in plain view of other boys ? were you supervised by Pe teachers or coaches while undressing and in hallways ? all male gender ?

If you were submitted to these exams two times by year , you might be used after the first times and less embarassed ?

how much boys were examined at the same day ? all same age or different one since it was not a class ?

Did you have a urine test at the school physical examinations ? For me it was casual at each examination each year and it was part of the exam that I

I disliked the more because I knew that it would be difficult to pee under instruction without need of peeing ( I kew by my father that he had the same issue at his job exams , it was a family issue !) , it was not easy to pee with a cup in your hand in just underwear while a school nurse stood behind you waiting to put the cup filled of urine , she believed that it would help me by saying that she needed only a few drops but it was stupid, I could not pee even for a few drops as long as she was behind me but she did not understood that and said that we were loosing time ! it happened a few times that she told me to come back again after some other boys would have been examined , one year I was even called to come again the last, we might stay in briefs in the locker room until all boys of the group, about 15 boys , had been examined, so it wqs not an issue to come back again to try to pee in the exam room. Fortunately in the last grades of high school, the school nurse had understood that the sound of the water fowing would help, so she opened the faucet of the sink aside the toilet to have a few flowing water and it was sucessful , I could pee normally.

I had the same issue later at draft physical examinations in a pre-induction military center for military service and after for induction and the drill sergeants who supervised our peeing in group in a line face to urinal walls were more angry if it took time, they shouted after me to hurry up which did not help !

As regards chest Xray , it was possible for us at school normally with a traveling cabin or we went like you in a medical center to do it but all the other parts of the exam were performed at school .

Were you instructed to go at the state health center according to your age or ramdomly?

Did you find it more or less embarrassing than when the exams were performed at school ?

Did you were exposed to other patients when you wlked undressed under the "flimsy cloth robes " in the hallways ? would it not have been more simple to instruct you to undress in underwears since the beginning ?

I have forgotten to ask at you if there was some parents present , I presume that the answer was not ? but they knew how you were examined if some of them complained about the state of undress?

To "scotty 95"

it is a kind of double standard if at your school, the boys might undress into underwears in a changing room and walked almost naked in corridors to go to the gym where the exam took place being exposed to the view of girls who giggled or wolf whistled at you, it was a funny parade of undressed boys for them when it wqas the day of boys physicals, may be you could be seen just wearing underwears also by teachers in the corridors ?

What was your school grade when it happened ? Were you supervised by a coach, a teacher, or a nurse when you walked in the corridors to go to the gym ?

And on the reverse you could not see the girls in underwears since they changed in the gym, so how was explained that difference , what was the argument used by school authorities to justify it ? I presume that you were not examined the same morning or day ?

During the exam were you exposed again or never ? how did you know that the girls were also undressed in underwears since you did not see them ? by rumors or talks with them or by teachers ?

@esaterman, answering your questions in turn.

We weren't seen by teachers, other than our PE coach, as far as we knew.

We stripped down to our boxers every year at high school in the changing room and walked down to the gym, always taken down by our PE coach.

There was no justification given for the difference where we stripped to our underwear, it was just how it happened. I guess it was seen that boys were less modest so it would speed things up. Boys and girls were examined on different days.

We stayed in our boxers for the exam other than for our genital check which was done behind a screen so we only seen naked by the doctor doing this part of the exam.

We knew that girls were examined in their underwear as we had a letter to be signed by our parents for the exam which clearly stated that both boys and girls would be examined in their underwear.

@esaterman You had a lot of questions in your reply. I hope I caught them all. To the extent that I can remember the answers or find answers on forms I may still have, here they are:

* When the big group physicals were done at my school, they were done on weekends or summer days because the gym, the training room, and the nurses' office and the hallways that connected them, as well as the cafeteria and library which were used for waiting areas for parents, would be booked for that for the whole day. That also ensured privacy as we walked through the halls.

* Yes, the times we were allowed to wear gym shorts between stations were not too bad. We were not permitted to wear anything else, but shorts are fine. The times we were given a towel, we had to be naked under the towel. At the state health center, we had a robe to wear while waiting and between stations/rooms and we were naked under that.

* The decision about undressing, I guess, was made by the staff who came in to do it. There was some link to age of boys, because if you needed a physical in kindergarten through 5th grade, you just took off your shirt and shoes. After that, you were required to undress.

* The time they asked for athletic supporters (jockstraps) we were told to wear one or bring one with us. This caused a stir among some parents and was not something they continued doing.

* Undressing was done in a locker room, then you walked to the training room for the first couple of stations, then to the main gym for several, then to the nurses' office for the last few. In most stations, being bare-chested was enough. The number of stations requiring full nudity depended in part on your sports. If you were in wrestling or boxing, you were weighed nude. If you were in any contact sport, all the muscular/skeletal/movement and coordination tests were done nude. When you got to the last few stations in the nurses' office, ALL of those were nude. That would include Tanner stage assessment and the final once-over from the doctor who would sign off that you had completed your full physical. So, of the maybe 15-20 separate stations, 4-5 were fully nude.

* Most stations had some element of privacy. The weighing/measuring, the EKG, and the coordination tests usually took in 2 or 3 boys at a time. The rest was pretty much one at a time. The final stations in the nurses' office, you would go in with 5 or 6 other boys at a time but would be alone when having Tanner done and when seeing the final doctor.

* Coaches helped out only in the sign-up area and in the changing room. Most of the staff supervising were from outside the school and were connected to the health center.

* There were hundreds of boys on these days, all ages. You would be told to arrive no later than a certain time, and when you were done, you were done. Usually there was some waiting, especially if you got there later.

* Yes, there was always a urine test.

* Chest and wrist/ankle Xrays were ONLY done when we went to the big state health department building. Never at school.

* I think there was some randomness with regards to having to go to the state health building, but I think there were certain ages where they preferred you to go there. As there was usually still a mix of ages, I am not totally sure. But I think they wanted you to go there at ages 11, 13, and 16, at least. I am not totally sure, though.

* It was embarrassing both at school and at the health center. Maybe in different ways, but neither was better than the other.

* Parents were permitted to be present if they wanted to be. At the school, they tended to only do their part and let you go through the exam without them. At the health center, there was a little more expected of parents in terms of speaking with the doctors in your presence.

* I do not know what caused all of the parent complaints. I know that some parents complained about the jockstrap, which I think was an attempt to mitigate the nudity in stations that normally expected nudity, but it didn't work as intended. The only other complaint I am aware of, was a parent who, during the physical, had an issue with Tanner stage assessment being mandatory for contact sports. I only know this because I was near the kid in question and was a friend of his and I overheard it. Apparently, his parents had asked a staff person to be allowed to talk to their son. The staff person came to get him from the rotation and said his parents wanted to speak with him before he did the final stations and that they could meet with him in an area near the entrance. He was just in a towel and he asked if he could put on some clothes before meeting his parents and he was told no, he'd have to stay like that because there wasnt time for him to go all the way back downstairs to the lockeroom, get dressed, meet with his parents, then go back and undress again to finish the physical. So, I think that caused some upset.

The type of examination depends on the country and clinic. As far as I remember, in our country all children under 10 years old had to be stripped down to their underpants. And the elders took off all their clothes above the waist. And of course, if a girl was wearing a dress, she was forced to undress down to her panties. So the guys weren't always unlucky.

I definitely witnessed a double standard in the office of the pediatrician my mother would bring us to. On one occasion our sister had a completely separate appointment that my brother and I did not attend. Of course she came with us when it was time for my brother and I to have an appointment. One another occasion the nurse had us leave the room while she was given her checkup - the nurse used this time to do height/weight and a hearing test. Not sure if the timing was a coincidence or not. This would have been in the 90s.

I definitely witnessed a double standard in the office of the pediatrician my mother would bring us to. On one occasion our sister had a completely separate appointment that my brother and I did not attend. Of course she came with us when it was time for my brother and I to have an appointment. One another occasion the nurse had us leave the room while she was given her checkup - the nurse used this time to do height/weight and a hearing test. Not sure if the timing was a coincidence or not. This would have been in the 90s.

As much as I enjoy a healthy CFNM scenario, that extreme and blatant of a double standard is just disgusting, as well as completely pointless.

I'd love to know the psychology and / or thought process behind whoever thought it was okay to let the boys show off, but keep the girls hidden at all costs. What were they trying to accomplish by doing that?

As much as I enjoy a healthy CFNM scenario, that extreme and blatant of a double standard is just disgusting, as well as completely pointless.

I'd love to know the psychology and / or thought process behind whoever thought it was okay to let the boys show off, but keep the girls hidden at all costs. What were they trying to accomplish by doing that?

I'd like to know too. Until about the age of 10 I grew up playing naked in the lawn sprinkler with my only two playmates who happened to be girls. We obviously noticed our differences but we were not embarrassed. They didn't have much of any real interest, just a slit up the front that we called their front behind. They found what I had more interesting because it was quite different from what they had and looked like extra parts. They were fascinated by the fact that I could pee through it and always wanted to watch me do that. After about the age of 10 it was adults who made us think we were supposed to hide our parts from each other and called them "privates" like no one was supposed to see them and we must keep them hidden. I think that is what causes embarrassment, you have to be taught.

I would be present for my brother’s exams, but he was dismissed to the waiting room during my exams. We both had to undress to undies, but I did not undress until he left the room. He is two years older than me.