Growing trend to get circumcised

Well to say we can't improve on nature is wrong too. What about misaligned teeth which can be fixed with braces? Acne which can be treated with meds?

The discussion isn't about improving on Nature's mistakes or not, or on the malfunctioning of the body. The discussion is about the blanket, no exceptions notion that all male underage children should be circumcised as a matter of course, because if this is not performed, then horrid and tragic outcomes will surely ensue to the organ in question.

I submit that such is not the case. Uncircumcised males need not fear any significantly greater adverse medical conditions to their penis. Hygienic conditions and knowledge are more critical than not having a foreskin.

Beyond that, adults can do as they like and get circumcised for whatever reason they wish.

@bridgette this is what we are saying really, but I worry you think your grandson will be unhealthy if he is uncircumcised. I hope you are worrying too much about it because my husband is proof a man is not doomed if he is not circumcised.

If uncircumcised men were doomed, then woe betide the vast majority of the world's men (which is around 2/3rds) who are not cut. Where does this apocalyptic thinking come from? Why imagine the absolutely worst possible outcome?

My father predicted doom and perdition, a certainty of infection after infection and other horrors leading up to amputation. It would have been laughable if I weren't so old the last times he raved on the subject. I've tried to figure out his gloom and doom thinking, but never succeeded.

In any case, I'm certain that the majority of the world's male population should be proof enough that circumcision is mainly a social custom, not a medically necessary intervention on the under-aged ...

I must has scrubbed in at least a half dozen penile amputation procedures necessitated by penile carcinoma. This took place over one summer and in a major US city, not in medieval times or in a third world country. It may be rare, but it happens ...

Do you think there is a rash of such cases in European countries, a significantly higher incidence and a greater prevalence? If so, don't you think that the national health systems of the many different countries wouldn't have been aware and taken steps and necessary precautions to address the problem?

Don't forget that a century ago, the majority of Americans were not circumcised. Was there a greater incidence of penile carcinomas then, compared to present times? If so it would be interesting to read more about it. And you'd think with all the discussing the pros and cons of circumcision, some mention of the higher incidence in previous times would have long been trotted out.

Agracier you're missing the point. The object is just to improve life a little. Hell none of us is getting out of this alive. As a physician if I can help a little I'm satisfied. One can survive just fine with crooked teeth or acne. It's just the little things to improve things. I've taken care of urosepsis in non circumcised infants. I've reduced incarcerated paraphimosis. I've with difficulty placed Foley catheters through pure pus in old guys with urinary retention. None of these patients died from their illness. It was just unpleasant for them. As a civilian you don't see those complications as I do but those unfortunates seem to find me. It would just be easier for all involved if they were circumcised and didn't have the problem in the first place. Oh yes I receive compensation for seeing them--most of the time, but to have to take myself away from a cratering heart attack patient is unfortunate. I know, I know I'm jaundiced but I view it as an ounce of prevention saves a pound of cure. And I've never heard anyone complain that his penis is substandard after a circumcision.

One of you needs a club to beat the other one to death so this can end! 😁 😁 😁

All I can say is with what I have, I can get as many of what you have as I want. . . in all its designs!

@liquidsky said

Check out this link by the American Cancer society. "Penile cancers are rare but most occur on the foreskin."

The article doesn't say that exactly. It actually states, and I quote -

"Almost all penile cancers start in skin cells of the penis."

Re squamous cell carcinomas - "Squamous cell carcinoma (also known as squamous cell cancer) can develop anywhere on the penis. Most of these cancers occur on the foreskin (in men who have not been circumcised) or on the glans. These tumors tend to grow slowly. If they are found at an early stage, they can usually be cured."

From the same source, the American Cancer Society, the estimated American penile cancer statistics for 2016 are -

* About 2,030 new cases of penile cancer diagnosed

* About 340 deaths from penile cancer

Source: http://m.cancer.org/cancer/penilecancer/detailedguide/penile-cancer-key-statistics

As for the risk factors, there are several, and it seems actually unclear whether being circumcised was significant. They even admitted in the article that

"In the end, decisions about circumcision are highly personal and often depend more on social and religious factors than on medical evidence."

Source: http://www.cancer.org/cancer/penilecancer/detailedguide/penile-cancer-risk-factors

I think when you consider that penile cancer is very uncommon, approximately 1 in 100,000 in North America and Europe, the statistics clearly do not support the idea that mass circumcision significantly reduces the risk. It would be better to promote good hygiene and not smoking.

Okay okay I will stop it but if he starts it again I'm down to continue. You can get whatever you want anytime Susie? I wish I could, I just got dumped.

Circumcised or not circumcised, what really matters at the end of the day is how impressive your bulge looks in a jockstrap. 😉

Healthy , I do like to be able to see the outline of the helmet . Just more , I dont know , warrier like ! Lol

Liquidsky, if you don't mind my asking, have you seen any/many penises with two urethral openings? I have two such openings, located about 4mm. apart on a vertical axis. I'd always thought this was the norm for all males, until, at age 54, I had a cystoscopy and the male urologist and his two female assistants made a big deal about it. The doc even injected gel to see if they were internally connected. They are; when I urinate, the two streams merge into one. I've forever since been curious about how common this might be.

I think you must have a mild case of hypospadias. I have seen several cases but they are usually corrected surgically when the patient is an infant or young child. They also are much much worse than yours sounds to be. Very interesting. Here's a link.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwiF2sTD5JnNAhVL-GMKHZYzCQ0QFggsMAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.m.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHypospadias&usg=AFQjCNG_ii2t5ppVjxkPV5ckwq7OaiR3wQ&sig2=lAYRcE_bOCT90ixnd7eG9A

Oh, wow! It's nothing like in the pics in your link. They are both located on the head of my penis and have never been a problem in any way that would require corrective surgery. It's just that the predominant one is a bit below the other. The upper opening is slightly smaller. I lived most of my life thinking it was normal (I'd never made a point of looking at any penis but my own!). I've three younger brothers and, as an older child, had been a caregiver for several younger cousins, too, and never noticed the difference. Thank you for your reply - and still wondering how common my particular anomaly really is.

Healthy , I do like to be able to see the outline of the helmet . Just more , I dont know , warrier like ! Lol

You're welcome to check out my pics, JTMac, on allkink, where you can see the warrior helmet, above & beneath. I use lighting to increase visibility beneath, and in some pics, it protrudes out above the waistband.

Like Rod (no pun intended) Stewart once said, "Every picture tells a story, don't it" 😉

Supposedly hypospadias is 1 in 250. You sound as if you did well for yourself. Did they have any trouble with the cystoscopy?

Liquidsky, there was no trouble with the cystoscopy; it was a preliminary response to issues I was having that later led to a prostate biopsy that tested positive. That occurred in '00 and is something I still live with after laparoscopic surgery in '01 and radiation in '05 (I'd rejected the later immediately after the surgery bit). PSA still (slowly) on the upswing. I love every minute of life and am ready and positive about everything that comes my way. I've had so many close calls in my life wherein I fully expected my end to occur within seconds, so living with the knowledge I have cancer has been a piece of cake.

I've actually had two (prostate) biopsies (2nd in '05). While waiting for the first, about eight guys ahead of me (and older) all returned to the waiting room area and each, in turn, seemed quite shaken, one old guy remarking, "That was the worst thing I every experienced in my entire life!" I prepared myself for the worst and, when the doc told me he was finished, I sat up with a smile and remarked, Is that all it is," mostly to make his day.

Http://www.zity.biz/index.php?mx=blog;ox=showpage;pg=3456

Well Cookie. . .This thread here, is living proof of yer wonderful blog 😃

Mike!

Aw Mike thanks for reading my blog.

Actually , the categories here and there match quite a bit  😁 😉

Healthy , I do like to be able to see the outline of the helmet . Just more , I dont know , warrier like ! Lol

@bridgette but with an uncircumcised penis you can enjoy that look as well! The best of both worlds in fact.

Liquidsky: As I said, penises should behave the same in all eras and parts of the world. I note that while some American associations of physicians advocate circumcision, their counterparts elsewhere do not. As far as I know, the health of Americans is not superior to that of the citizens of the rest of the developed world. Thus, I wonder about this discrepancy: surely, if there was a clear need for circumcision, most of these associations would follow suit.

Also, American physicians do not necessarily know the ground truth. Think, for instance, of enemas before childbirth (or pubic shaving). They were routinely practiced in the US a few decades ago; nowadays they are advised against. Complete reversal of thought on the same issue.

Also, as A.Gracier pointed out, some few decades ago, some associations of American physicians considered homosexuality a mental illness (at best; recall it was considered a crime). There were even doctors writing in medical journals about diagnosing anal sex from examining anuses. Now, homosexuality is no longer widely considered a mental illness, and diagnosing it by looking and prodding the anus is considered bogus science. We even mock other countries such as Turkey when they do so.

That's kinda', what I was thinking 😉 I belong to several Vintage Radio Forums, as I actually have a website that is all about that, with kits, parts, etc. . .I do-not participate in those forums, as all the stuff. . .and. . .MORE, that you wrote in your blog applies to those forums. My, whole target is to help people, especially new-comers, as I am highly into vintage, and vintage, myself 😉 But, invariably, there are total dickheads there, that always have to interfere, and just mess-up the real help. . .I just stay away. If I do see, or am asked to help, I just do private emails. . .Love you, Cookie!!, MisseeLee 😉 Mostly, love my Sue, and Callie 😃 Mike.

Time marches on Pecan. Scientific research does too. What was yesterday's news becomes tomorrow's past tense and is forgotten. I'd just rather bank on science than dogma or blindly accepting the status quo. As for prenatal enemas, double blind studies were done which proved they conferred no benefit.

You don't love me mike! 😞

Agracier you're missing the point. The object is just to improve life a little.

Blanket, routine, circumcision imposed on all newly-born/underage boys does have this faint aura of totalitarianism about it or at the very least a strong imposition of social conformity. If you ponder the question, it actually sounds like something one would encounter in a society that sets worth on social engineering and group uniformity or an adherence to lofty, but usually unattainable ideals of social cohesion via the malleability of large groups of people.

Now, it is especially odd that a country like the US, which prides itself on its ideals of individual freedom and reduction of imposition of forms of (government or other) authority should so enthusiastically embrace the idea of uniform circumcision of the under-aged. It is counter-intuitive.

And where does the idea come from that circumcision improves life for everyone? It may help prevent a small number of hypothetical medical problems for a very small minority of males in a possible future. Such effort and coercion spent on such small returns. And therefore everybody else needs to be affected and physically altered?

Sounds like an antithesis of what personal freedom should be about.

With all due respect @agracier, there is no such thing as total individual freedom in the United States, or elsewhere, and there is pervasive regulation in the United States -- even as it applies to children. For children, that includes mandatory vaccination, mandatory attendance at school, mandatory seat belts in cars, etc. I have no problem with you expressing your opinion on circumcision, whether or not I agree with it, but please don't make up specious arguments about America. The only people in America who pride themselves on individual freedom and less regulation are the ones who would take advantage others if those regulations were not in existence. Does that mean there are no silly or overbroad controls? No. That's the real freedom here -- we have the freedom to debate these issues, even if we can never agree on them.

OMG blanket circumcision? How totally ridiculous. It's always up to the parents. They must sign a consent form to have it performed on their son. As Srg rk says we have more freedom here than anywhere in the world. You've really wandered far afield this time.

OMG blanket circumcision? How totally ridiculous. It's always up to the parents.

I think you are being a bad boy again @liquidsky because I have seen you write about recommendations for blanket circumcision. I remember things, just ask my husband. 😁 😁

http://www.zity.biz/index.php?mx=forum;ox=display;msg=702337

Amethyst no one tells the parents to sign that form. It's all just recommendations. In point of fact, fewer circumcisions are being done now. Pediatricians recommend that the child should look like his dad to avoid the child being self conscious.

In point of fact, fewer circumcisions are being done now. Pediatricians recommend that the child should look like his dad to avoid the child being self conscious.

Yeah I saw some statistics that said that fewer are being done but I think a lot of people would not believe it because they would not want to hear it.

I think the 'looks like his dad' recommendation is just a silly specious one because there are a lot of ways a boy might not look like his dad. Doctors would never amputate anything else on the boy's body to make him look more like his dad.

Pediatricians recommend that the child should look like his dad to avoid the child being self conscious.

This may not be a pediatrician's job, but I wish I would have had the choice of not looking like my father in other ways as well ... it is possible to be self-conscious of parts of one's body precisely because of resemblance ...

This is a contentious topic. Everyone has an opinion. I really don't care which way you are. It's your business. I'm just here to point out the medical rationale for performing circumcision.