Military Physical Examinations

I remember it well. Former Soviet Union. 1970s. At 18 years old if you happened to be unfortunate not to enrol in university, you are supposed to be recruited in the army for 2 years. But before that, every boy had to undergo health assessment in order to find out whether you are fit for military service in terms of your health. Most boys anyway would be found perfectly fit or fit with minor restrictions. The first time you are called for such assessment was at 14, then at 16 and finally if you ended up going to the army at 18.

Historical photo evidence of those physical exams is ubiquitous on the web. There were times, long ago, when boys were stripped naked for the exam and I myself had that experience.

These descriptions are generally appalling, particularly the news story from Poland.

I think it's a crime against humanity to force ANY innocent, unwilling victim to take off their clothes (few exceptions,maybe maximum security prisons). It was done by the Nazi's in death camps to humiliate their victims, it was a routine part of Medieval torture & executions, it's done by the CIA in "hard interrogations" to get the upper hand. In a word it's psychological warfare, & it's also pretty endemic in the US Healthcare system.

Along with the job security, the POWER to humiliate & degrade normal, law-abiding people draws many docs, nurses, MAs to the profession. Unlike with ALL other professionals who can't force capricious, arbitrary nudity on anybody, they can. For the duration of visits, we become captors in the hands of those having the mindset of correctional officers (only with higher test scores). Even scribes (doubling as chaperones) aren't immune from the rush that comes with embarrassing & humiliating decent patients -- not medical fetishists (like many here looking for a cheap thrill) just sick people needing treatment.

Some of my personal medical experiences as a civilian approach that of the female Polish grad student in the anecdote. How does it differ from a working class Joe, or a corporate applicant at a job physical, with a doctor barking orders to strip for a frontal urology & prostate exam, like an SS guard: followed by an observed urine test? These are jobs in which hernias for heavy lifting are defined by the ADA as tertiary function, not primary, or even secondary. These hard core military anecdotes are common practice outside the military everywhere & not looked at as abuse, but I assert it IS abuse.

* Please, no parotting of empty talking points about protecting facilities from rare "false accusations"! The corporate facilities are mostly protecting themselves from potentially legitimate sex abuse complaints. Any real victim of medical sexual misconduct can verify there's little or no real recourse. The Department of Justice estimates that 74% of medical sexual misconduct goes unreported because victims know their claims will bounce back as "unsubstantiated". (A layperson's word against that of a "venerated" professional?) Now chaperones (facility shills only) are going to raise those statistics. Criminal investigations into UCLA's Heaps, Weisneier & USC:s Tyndall. proved that chaperones are enablers & facilitators who "aid & abet". Australian medical officials have recognized that & are dismissing the use chaperones in medical practice.

@AlC : Not sure if you are online any longer since it's been a hot minute from the date you shared your experience getting a medical and psychiatric exam and Fort Holabird as candidate in the Army Intelligence Corps. I have so many questions about that.

@Kulemh In your experience of going through a Soviet Medical Exam... is it true that there were female nurses, doctors, and staff present while the conscripts were undressed? And how long do you recall having to remain nude for? When I entered the US Military. We spent most of the morning in our skivvies (boxers) doing mobility, height/weight, and balance checks but we went in one at a time to have a head-to-toe exam and we had to take off our underwear. I was only nude for about 5 mins or so but my doctor was a woman who examined me... prodding, poking, and asking questions while I was totally naked.

Here in Brazil, men aged 18 to 19 all in underwear in a row behind each other, the first inspection was blood pressure measurement, a dental exam and finally, in another row, all without underwear, another doctor inspected the testicles and hernia.

is it true that there were female nurses, doctors, and staff present while the conscripts were undressed?

@MilGuy , yes it’s true. In fact, most of the medical personnel were women. That was a shock for us of course as in our previous experience we never had this.

Regarding the time being naked, it was much longer than your 5 minutes. From the beginning we had to go through all stations completely undressed and it took about 2-2.5 hours, most of which was hanging in a queue to get to one or another station. On the day there were a couple of hundreds if not more boys from several schools.

"Kulemh"

since you were submitted to an exam to check fitness for military in the 70's, it was not at all surprising that it was performed without respect of privacy and dignity, it was almost the same in a lot of countries with a compulsory military service such as some asian ones ( South Korea, China of course) but also european ones like Italia , Spain and France where I have been a draftee in the last 60's, the nudity was the rule for all exams including eyes test, X ray, blood test, urine test which was supervised on each side of wall urinals by nurses with a drill sergeant behind the row of ten naked draftees to bark to us to hurry up, weigh ins and a lot of other measurements all performed in the nude, and it was a group exam, we stayed naked for a long time like you , may be two hours or three because thre was a lot of time to wait na

"Kulemh"

Since you were submitted to an exam to check fitness for military in the 70's, it was not at all surprising that it was performed without respect of privacy and dignity, it was almost the same in a lot of countries with a compulsory military service, such as some asian ones ( South Korea, China of course) but also european ones like Italia, Spain and France, where I have been a draftee in the last 60's, the nudity was the rule for all exams including eyes test, X ray, blood test, urine test, which was supervised on each side of wall urinals by nurses with a drill sergeant behind the row of ten naked draftees to bark to us to hurry up, also weigh- ins, and a lot of other measurements, all performed in the nude, and it was a group exam, we stayed naked for a long time like you, may be two hours or three, all a morning, because there was a lot of time to wait or walk naked in corridors. It was in a pre-induction military medical center.

The difference was that, at least for me, it was an all male environment only, no female doctors nor female nurses nor female clerks, but I know that it had changed some years later, and there was some women in the medical staff, especially some female nurses.

I would have not been so much surprised if there would have been some women because I have had a mandatory physical examination at school, from 11 age to 17-18 age each year of school after the beginning of the school year, and all the exams were performed by a woman doctor and a female school nurse, very often assisted by a young girl student nursing just aged of 20 or 19, and if we might undress in just briefs, all a group of 15 students in the adjoining locker room under supervision of a male Pe teacher immediately after entrance in the room, and if we might line up in briefs for a roll call by the school nurse, we were after examined stark naked in the exam room but it was alone ; nevertheless it means that in last grade, at 17 age, or for some of us 18 age, we were naked for weigh- in wich was performed under supervision of the school nurse by the young nursing student aged almost same age than us and we were naked to climb up on the scale and stand with arms on our sides for the check and we stayed naked for about ten minutes and exposed to them front and back with also walking in the room to check our gait and balance and after a thorough inspection of the spine and bend over to touch ankles.

It was almost the same for sport exams or summer camp exams performed often by women medics, no matter if the boys were embarrassed, they were supposed to be manly and get over their embarrassment.

In my year of dradt exam, after the exam in the pre-induction center, there was a physical examination which was shorter but more humiliating and was performed by a military doctor in front of a draft board commission, it was a few weeks after at the age of 18 with a large group of boys exposed naked to the sight of a dozen of members of the commission, civilian persons representatives of local and national authorities and some superior officers, none of them being a medic person, the only one being the military doctor who performed the exam, from head to toes, frontally and by back, in front of them who were sitting behind a desk, and we might walk from one side to the other of the desk, and at each side turn over first to be seen and inspected frontally and then turn over again to be seen and inspected by back and bend over to touch ankles with naked butt in plain view of all the members. Most of them were men but there could be one or two women reprentatives of local authorities, and if thre was women as members of the commission, nothing was changed in the set up of the procedure, the group nudity and exposure naked to the members of the commission was the same ! boys aged of 18 were not supposed to be shy towards nudity in front of adults persons, no matter ws their gender. It took place in the facilities of the town hall of a district, generally with the exam in the larger room which was normally devoted to weddings.

I have read that In Germany a few years before military service was phased , the german draftees aged of 17 or 18 age ( they were summoned the year they reached 18 age) were very often examined for the last and intimate part by two women, a woman doctor and a woman nurse or medical secretary who was just watching the exam, and they were stark naked all along that last exam and some told that they were mortified , but they were alone in front of the two women and stripped naked only when they were in the exam room.

As regards your examination for military service in the soviet Union , can you relate to us with more details how they were performed,? was was the set up ?, where it took place ?, if you received at home a letter explaining the procedure to your parents ? how much you were undressed at same time ? how much persons see you naked ? if the nurses were military nurses or civilians under contract or civilian nurses assigned especially for that task and how old were they, same question for doctors ?

What did the female clerks ? did they saw you naked and how long, in what circonstance ? did they watch all your exam naked ?

You said that you were called a first time at 14 age, then at 16 age, and a last time at 18 age, did you were submitted to three exams ?

Were they conducted with some differences or exactly the same even if you had not the same age ? for instance with less nudity at 14 age than 18 because it was less important ?

Since you were still at school, did you were also supervised by school teachers ?

Where did they take place,? in military hospital ? in civilian hospital or medical clinic, ?, in a military facility? or at school at 14 age in a gym ?

It might have taken a very long time to have these three exams for all boys and it needed the involvment of a lot of persons, are you sure that it was the same in all the Soviet Union country? may be it was specific to your district ? it might have been well known by all persons living in town, teachers of both genders as well as parents, and students of both genders, So I presume that it was it a subject of discussion at school before or after ?

Did you know when it changed as regards nudity in group for a long time and lack of privacy and when it was decided that there was no need for the three exams at 14, 16 and 18 age? and why?

Did your moms come to answer questions and in that case did they see the boys undressed ?

Did you have a last exam in front of a draft board commission at 18 age or before like it was in France ?

@Kulemh Yeah, that is basically how other conscripts of that era have described the induction experience. Several things though: First, European culture (especially Eastern Europe) generally has a different perspective of nudity doesn't it (don't get me wrong, hanging out with one's privates hanging out for 2hrs with many females around could be an awkward feeling for any young man). Secondly, I think back then it was an expectation for males to "act like men" ... meaning they shouldnt show modesty. Thirdly, how in the heck did the logistics work with so many inductees? Like did you guys have to carry your clothes around everywhere or was there a giant locker area to store your articles/clothing?

Also, (I feel compelled to ask even though it is a weird question) wasn't the military commission board concerned about guys developing an involuntary erection since their were females of all ages present? I mean,, shoot, even though my medical only lasted 5 mins .. AND with the room being super cold... I still remember having a slight reaction down there. My lady doc wasn't even that good looking either! It was just an inadvertent response to being poked and prodded lol. Finally, didnt they let you guys at least keep your underwear on for the vision, blood pressure, and hearing tests?

@MilGuy , thank you for asking for more details.

The military draft office had a smallish building. So the medical exam of so many people was held in a nearby college, which I believe at that moment was on half term.

On the ground floor there was a huge room like a hall for gatherings, where we initially were completed paperwork and then listened to speeches delivered by veterans about the importance of serving in the army and how proud we must feel about such an opportunity)

Then about 50 boys were taken upstairs for medical exam. Later as the process was in progress officers regularly returned back to call another 10-15 boys upstairs to be examined. Eventually it was my turn to go there and I of course was a bit nervous climbing the stairs with other boys. We were brought to a huge hall with lots of benches along the wall and windows. On the opposite side there were doors leading to the exam stations, in normal times just college classrooms. On each door there was a label indicating the speciality of the doctors, eg neurologist, ear nose throat, surgeon etc.

we were told to undress completely and leave the clothes on the benches, although it was not needed as we immediately realised and were shocked by what we saw all the boys who were there queueing in front of the exam stations were completely naked.

So we started to get off our clothes. We were told to visit each exam station in no particular order and in the end to report to the commission where final conclusion about the status of our health would be made. For the whole time we were naked including the final stage.

Regarding erection, I didn’t see anyone, however, I myself nearly run into trouble at one moment. Fortunately I managed to fight it off, thanks god.

I think in late 1970s the practice of naked exams was abandoned in Soviet Union. I might be one of the last to undergo that.

When Yahoo announced closure of their groups, I requested and received a dispatch of a lot of the contents of "Group Physical Exams", a blog on military physicals which I moderated. I was unable to decipher the download until recently when I found a software program capable of doing so. Many of the photos downloaded fine, but are available on other blogs such as Musterung. The narratives look goofy, but are mostly intelligible. I've spent some time reading these postings and they relate mostly to the Vietnam War era US draft physicals rather than medical exams on Army posts.

As I recall, most of the actual narrative descriptions from examinees were posted decades ago on a WebTV blog, and in a forum called EGroups. Unfortunately, none of those postings were preserved by Yahoo.

I've done a hasty review of the Yahoo postings I retrieved and they mostly focus on the larger examining centers, plus the measures those centers took to assure sufficient men were deemed suitable for military service in order to meet the daily pass rate quota of the MEPS. There also some memories posted on how the MEPS found almost entertaining methods to select unsuspecting draftees to go to the Marine Corps. rather then to the Army.

Perhaps some software program will become available to better format these Yahoo postings. It might be worth a shot to find a forum where they could be shared in masse. As it stands I lack the knowledge, time or motivation to do so.

A few comments on "MilGuy " previous message and " kulemh"

As regards "Milguy" it is true that it seems that in european eastern countries around the soviet Union (Poland and other ones) and of course still more truth in Soviet Union, until recent times, there was generally a lot of females around the draftees at their physical exam for draft, very often when they were stark naked like "Kulemh", either doctors and nurses ( the medic persons were mainly of female gender), and there could be also female clerks to check papers, collect administrative informations about each dratee, or check identity, or fill the medical form if they were in the exam room. It is what we could see on photos on documentaries about the draft process or even in movies (because even if a movie is fictional, when it shows a draft examinations, it is generally completely inspired by reality), or what we could read in some french magazines ( articles about the russian draft process or that of neighboring countries.) and relations in forums discussions like that one.

It was sometimes related that all the clothes might be removed in a room and given to some cloakroom ladies to be put in lockers or in bags and kept by these ladies until the end of all the examination, it meaned that all draftees stripped at the same time in front of these ladies and stayed naked until all had been examined and then came back to the locker room.

But, except for the presence of women, it was not specific to these countries, it was a little the same in many western countries for the complete nudity of draftees but may be more far in the past because it changed sooner than in Russia.

You asked to "Kulemh " if the draftees were naked even for eyes tests or checking of blood pressure or test for hear vision, I cannot answer instead of him on that point but it seems that it was the case if I have well understoood his message, and I can answer for me, at the french pre-induction military center where I might report for a compulsory physical examination at 18 age in the middle of the 60 's, we were first submitted to a shower group, followed by a quick but akward cleanliness corporal inspection by drill sergeants, and then we were directed to an other building at the barrracks , to strip completely in a huge locker room ( no women ) and then to go naked in group supervised by drill sergeants from a medical station to an other one after waiting in line in a corridor, and we were threfore stark naked at all stations even those who did not require nudity such as X ray, eyes tests, hear vision, teeth inspections, blood pressure, and so on, it was a real parade of naked young men as draftees of 18 age during almost all a morning, we saw a superior officer and a chief doctor at the end after all the stations, and we were still naked. For me there was no women doctors nor women nurses but I know by relations of other guys later during my studies that it happened a few years later in France too to be examined by a woman doctor and female nurses, even like it was for me at school or university physical examinations by young nursing students. And a guy had told me that at the last step of the process when he was standing naked in front of a superior officer and a chief doctor, there was a female secretary in military clothes to take notes near them, others that thre was female nurses and seldomly female secretaries who walked by the corridors when they were lining up in the nude against the wall to wait to enter in a medical station.

I was personnaly not aroused and I had not seen an erection among the draftees because it was rather cold and the temperature of the rooms was adapted to the medic persons who were clothed as well as that of the corridors for the drill sergeants, and besides the supervision of the drill sergeants was rough and we were impressed, so it was not common to be aroused in such a situation, but I cannot swear that it did happened to some draftees, or at least that a few were not partially aroused.

I guess this typical in russian style exams, we in china do almost the same, no privacy no shy they dont care you humiliated or not, they have two tier in china, pre-exams done in civilian hospital, the 2nd ones in military hospitals

"Pug"

if you were a chinese draftee or if you know well the draft process in china, can you please give to us a little more informations about it

At what age are the chinese draftees summoned to report at a physical examination in a civilian hospital which is according to you the first step of the draft process ? do they receive a summon letter at home where they live with their parents or are they summoned by the school if they are still at high school ? are they summoned with boys same age that they do not know or are they summoned with boys classmates ?

And at what age is the second exam in a military hospital ? is it just a few weeks later like for me the first exam at the pre-induction military center and the second in front of a draft board commission in the facilities of a town hall or is it one year after or more ?

How are exactly carried on these exams ? for the first at a civilian hospital, are some military officers or non commisioners officers present to supervise the young draftees , maintain discipline during waiting for instance and so on ..? or is it in a civilian environment only ? with supervision of teachers of the school or stuff members of the school ?

What is the gender of the medic persons , was it like in Russia mainly female gender or on the reverse mainly or only male gender ?

As regards the second exam at a military hospital, is it almost the same set up than for the first, or is it more demeaning with much more group nudity ? and much more draftees summoned at the same time and instructed to strip ?

Are officers and non commissioners officers present ? with female nurses ? with female secretaries ? are the draftees naked even for checking identity or informations about family and studies ?

how long does it last for each exam ? how long are you undressed ? can you be summoned several times if your fitness is not good at the first one ?

Has it changed since recent years to give to the draftees more respect of privacy anf dignity or it is always the same set up ?

When Yahoo announced closure of their groups, I requested and received a dispatch of a lot of the contents of "Group Physical Exams", a blog on military physicals which I moderated. I was unable to decipher the download until recently when I found a software program capable of doing so.

@P1ebeboy , you’ve got a very good archive. I hope you will find time and motivation as well as technical means to give the second life.

" Kulemh"

I presume that it was very much impressive the first time you were summoned for a mandatory physical examination for military service aged of 14, you were still a student, were you summoned with strangers or with your boys classmates same age and same school ?

I have first understood that the exam took place in a draft office but you said that it was in a nearby college with checking papers and filling different admistrative papers in a hall on ground floor and listening veterans before being sent by officers upstairs by group of 50 and then instructed to strip immediately under instruction in a huge room and leave your clothes on benches along the wall and line up naked in front of the doors of different exam rooms,

Who gave you the instruction to strip ?, certainly military men or women, were they very strict with you ? and did they barked the orders ? how much boys were you in the nude all together ? and in front of how much persons ?

Was it diffferent at 14 and 16 age ? with may be more women medics at 14 than 16 or more at 14 and 16 than 18 age ? and more intimate exams at 18 age ?

What seemed to you the worst, normally it might be the first time at 14 since you did not know in advance how it was carried on ?

Was it cold to stay naked in the hall and after in front of the exam rooms ? Did you receive some smacks on your butt from nurses, doctors or military supervisers as I did personnally at the pre-induction military center, either to hurry up before lining up or to close ranks for waiting along a wall ( we were almost "nuts to butts" , it seems to be a kind of ritual of initiation for draftees ) or for entrance in an exam room or for climb up on a scale or climb down from a scale, or to bend over while being back to a doctor or to stand up again or turn around, or to walk or squat and so on ...

Were you questioned about it by your parents at your return at home ? was it a subject of discussions at meet families like it was for me in the 60's?

If you were in a mixed school, did the girls classmates teased at you and asked you to relate your exam since they were themselves never summoned to these exams

I am surprised that you had three exams at 14, at 16 and at 18 age to check the fitness for military service which took a lot of time and involved a lot of persons, while you said that you had only one physical exam at school ? In France we had each year of school a mandatory physical examination between 11 and 17-18 age performed at school without any possibility to avoid it, a medical form filled by the family doctor or any other doctor was not availuable.

As regards the military physical examination at 14 age, it seems to me that it was useful to detect eyes issues, hear issues, or teeth issues enough soon to let you the time to cure them before the call for the army, or also to detect some skin issues or spine issues which needed specific lessons for corrective gymnastics, but these issues would have been also detected if you have had school physical examinations each year.

"P1ebeboy" ; I am sure that you have very interesting messages which were edited Yahoo group about military physical examinations, they were in my memory mainly written by american people about their experiences especially during the time of the Vietnam war but some were written about experiences in other countries, I remember of one who took place in Portugal.

If you know how to do it, there must be also a lot of messages on Voy forum archives on a forum which has been unfortunately now deleted and was called physical examinations procedures and experiences or a bit the same title, because we can see by reading the list of subjects which is always in access that there was a lot about military examinations for young men, for women, and one was even about the differences between the two genders for such exams, many messages were written several years ago, for intance during the year 2003 or 2004, and of course also a lot of message about group physical exams at school for sport written by boys ( men now ) and girls ( women now ) but I am not enough skill in computer to find them and open them in the wayback machine

@Miguel You should translate these videos of Brazilian boys talking about their mandatory military physicals where they had to get naked. The relevant part comes later in the longer videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hxbjLkJqpw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dctC2FAOwp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdx8F8UDOvY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cE9uqUwjMo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl43jjWN_Kc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oBQbF88tiQ

@esaterman

At what age are the chinese draftees summoned to report at a physical examination in a civilian hospital which is according to you the first step of the draft process ? do they receive a summon letter at home where they live with their parents or are they summoned by the school if they are still at high school ? are they summoned with boys same age that they do not know or are they summoned with boys classmates ?

no, it volunteer based

And at what age is the second exam in a military hospital ? is it just a few weeks later like for me the first exam at the pre-induction military center and the second in front of a draft board commission in the facilities of a town hall or is it one year after or more ?

a few weeks/months later when enlisted

How are exactly carried on these exams ? for the first at a civilian hospital, are some military officers or non commisioners officers present to supervise the young draftees , maintain discipline during waiting for instance and so on ..? or is it in a civilian environment only ? with supervision of teachers of the school or stuff members of the school ?

local government military draft department supervise the first round in a civilian hospital, with drs and nurses from the civilian hospital do the actual exam.

What is the gender of the medic persons , was it like in Russia mainly female gender or on the reverse mainly or only male gender ?

strictly females dr/nurse for females, for male mixed gender usually male doctor female nurse

As regards the second exam at a military hospital, is it almost the same set up than for the first, or is it more demeaning with much more group nudity ? and much more draftees summoned at the same time and instructed to strip ?

second one when they already enlisted, unqualified will sent back, military doctors travel to the local base, setup a tent. certainly more de-human,y, like you said, summoned and striped together, everything, from begin to end entire process. only been to guys myself, always want to go to checkout girls side but denied every time..

Are officers and non commissioners officers present ? with female nurses ? with female secretaries ? are the draftees naked even for checking identity or informations about family and studies ?

no, strictly same gender in 2nd round

how long does it last for each exam ? how long are you undressed ? can you be summoned several times if your fitness is not good at the first one ?

usually half a day for 1st round and 2 hours for second, everyone must pass two exams

Has it changed since recent years to give to the draftees more respect of privacy anf dignity or it is always the same set up ?

not at guys side, I heard on girls side they had more privacy, merely because most girls have social connections, either their family are high ranking army officers, you should know military consider 'gold plated' job in china, especially for girls, due to the high demand and fierce competition

@TChesterson Without conditions, unfortunately I don't speak or write English, all posts and reading on Zity.biz are done through the GOOGLE translator. Sorry