Female School Exams in Pennsylvania during 1980s and 90s

Https://www.poconorecord.com/story/news/1999/07/14/girls-say-school-forced-physical/51093127007/

This is a news story regarding a school doctor performing genital exams on female students during a school physical. The timeframe is the same as when I attended school and while it was a different district, these type of exams seemed commonplace in Pennsylvania schools. I know that my exams were always thorough and included a genital exam. Does anyone have firsthand knowledge or experience with regard to how female students were examined in Pennsylvania during the 80's and 90's?

Wow. that has to be rare. my wife and sisters both had physicals in grammar school, but not internal exams.

I remember my sister begging my mother to have our pediatrician fill out the form so she wouldn't have to be examined at school. My mother was dismissive saying that it was "just a physical" and "no big deal." I remember her crying the night before. She never told me what happened during her exam.

Wow that’s terrible. They were medically raped.

My sister and I went to our doctor who probably did any exams at the school as well seeing that she was the only doctor in town. Ours was a regular yearly physical. So she looked in our ears, nose, and throat, and rubbed where our boobs would be (lol). Listened to our breathing and heart. Pressed on our tummy, bent our legs and toes, then had us raise our bottoms off of the exam table and slide our panties down. Then took one arm and raised our lower parts off the table so she could take a fast look between our legs and that was it. Then we got shots and the doctor signed off on it.

For cheerleading, we had to squat, bend over and touch our toes keeping our legs straight. and a few other things and she signed off on it. We were not even undressed. I think that was to protect us as well as the school in case we fell the school could not say the injury was there before.

Never, ever any internal. I would have freaked out.

. I know that my exams were always thorough and included a genital exam.?

You’re male. I’m assuming you got a hernia check. That’s not a genital exam. There is no reason for a school doctor to be giving an intimate exam in 21st Century America.

Lost forms for physicals and no acknowledgement of the option the parent took to declare the choice to be present during her daughter's exam. Wonder how big the school is, and the number of people involved in the administration where the right written communication can become such a train wreck. it sounds like an accepted thing in PA that the doctor will digitally penetrate a pre teen's vagina, yet the awareness of the parents that this sort of thing goes on doesn't seem to be that effectively communicated to some of these parents.

Of course, this was back in 1999. Another brick in the wall for why most patients are keeping their clothes on throughout today's bullshit physical exams.

You’re male. I’m assuming you got a hernia check. That’s not a genital exam. There is no reason for a school doctor to be giving an intimate exam in 21st Century America.

@Nurse_Phillips it was more than a hernia check for the guys during those exams. I found out from some of my female classmates that the girls were also checked for a hernia. It happened when a group of girls returned to class and started asking how girls are checked for a hernia. They mentioned the doctor had them cough during the exam.

it sounds like an accepted thing in PA that the doctor will digitally penetrate a pre teen's vagina, yet the awareness of the parents that this sort of thing goes on doesn't seem to be that effectively communicated to some of these parents.

@JTMac growing up, we just assumed that it was the norm for both guys and girls. Everyone hated getting called to the nurse's office for an exam. We teased each other about what the doctor was going to do during the exam. It's no wonder that so many of us developed a medical fetish.

This seems just like something out of the fantasy stories posted on this site, except it's for real.

That doctor perhaps chose the wrong kind of place to do this. In other occurrences of similar acts, they would do this in schools for "troubled" girls, who would not have parents to support them, who would not be believed, who could be suspected of being promiscuous which would justify the examination.

In an affluent area with parents ready to pay for lawyers, this is another matter.

As in other similar events, nursing staff seems to support the physician.

As in other similar events some parents seem to have dismissed girls' complaints as whiny teenagers.

One originality: the physician is female.

This incident is famous because of the litigation it provoked. It occurred in a period when the hysteria of child abuse was at its height in certain communities where any parent automatically got suspected for child abuse, and parents having any kind of alternative lifestyle nearly automatically got tagged as abusers. This hysteria still continues, but now mostly behind closed doors.

This hyteria caused and still causes a lot of contradictory reactions.

Intimate exam of all children with internal investigation to find symptoms of child abuse. Not only the physical findings but also the reaction of the child was used in the hunt for child abuse. This incident probably falls into this category.

- Fair by doctors of doing any kind of intimate exam to avoid being accused of child abuse themselves.

- Doing secret extensive internal exams in the intimate area of children under anesthesia, while giving a fake purpose for the anesthesia, or doing it in adition to a real purpose when the kid is under anesthesia anyway. As a consequence, general anesthesia is now extensively used on kids where such anesthesia is not necessary at all, but a tool to hide these additional intimate exams.

- Never telling beforhand fully what they intend to do.

Do you think these intimate exams during school physicals were motivated (at least officially) by detection of child abuse?

If so, it would be curious that students could get away from these by providing a form from a private physician. Certainly if a parent abused a child, he (or she) would have her examined privately (without a pelvic) rather than risk detection.

A prime example of an authoritarian society and it's justification for controlling the masses. These girls HAVE to be examined in this way for the good of themselves and society at large. Something really is wrong with this picture. SMDH.

Do you think these intimate exams during school physicals were motivated (at least officially) by detection of child abuse?

The ugly, cruel irony of sexually molesting someone for the (alleged) purpose of detecting abuse at the hands of another.

Do you think these intimate exams during school physicals were motivated (at least officially) by detection of child abuse?

In this story, it is not clear if the private doctors also included a pelvic exam. But I know that private doctors got the same orders from authorities as those providing school physicals.

It also looks from the story that certain parents were more under suspician by the school authorities than others of all kind of wrongdoing, where any kind of lifestyle that was not politically correct was regarded as wrongdoing.

It looks like those being examined at school were all those not provided with exam document from a private doctor, AND: all children of those parents that were not totally politically correct. For the last group the school oficials probably simply lied about not finding the document.

It also looks like that the feelings of parents being suspected wrongly for criminal behavior was an unsaid motivaation for the litigation.

I have read a lot about this case. Some years ago it got commented a lot in the media.

The ugly, cruel irony of sexually molesting someone for the (alleged) purpose of detecting abuse at the hands of another.

Isn't that one of the main reasons girls don't report rape? What the police or others will do to them to see if they really have any signs of it and to collect semen samples or other evidence. My neighbor who used to babysit for us was a beautiful girl. She was raped by her cousin and most of us knew about it but she refused to report it because of what she knew they would do to her when obtaining evidence.

@roscoe It's not only that, it's also that girls and women are suspected of having "asked for it". They get interrogated about the kind of clothing they wore (was it too revealing?), if they had drunk something, if they are promiscuous, etc.

In many cases, their private life will be exposed, and the rapist will not be convicted, or to a lenient sentence.

So is it worth it?

@roscoe It's not only that, it's also that girls and women are suspected of having "asked for it". They get interrogated about the kind of clothing they wore (was it too revealing?), if they had drunk something, if they are promiscuous, etc.

In many cases, their private life will be exposed, and the rapist will not be convicted, or to a lenient sentence.

So is it worth it?

Yeah, that's an old standard. Looking attractive means they asked for it.😡

@roscoe It's even worse than that. An unattractive woman who claims to have been raped will be accused of making things up - who would like to screw her?

I rember an interview with the first helicopter pilot who was shot down in the gulf war. She and her gunner were captured and riding in the back of a truck when the guy guarding them put his hand inside her pants and began exploring. Her gunner had 2 broken arms and was going crazy because he couldn't help her. The TV interviewer (a female) was shocked that would happen and asked how she stood it. Her reply was that it was nothing compared to the flight physicals she had to endure.

Isn't that one of the main reasons girls don't report rape? What the police or others will do to them to see if they really have any signs of it and to collect semen samples or other evidence.

I agree with that 100%. While I obviously can't comment on the experience of a female, I know how embarrassing and traumatic it was when i was raped and underwent a forensic exam to collect evidence. For me it was worse than the rape itself, as I had been drugged for the original rape, but was fully conscious - and trying to process what had happened - for the forensic exam. 😮😳

It's also that girls and women are suspected of having "asked for it". They get interrogated about the kind of clothing they wore (was it too revealing?), if they had drunk something, if they are promiscuous, etc. In many cases, their private life will be exposed, and the rapist will not be convicted, or to a lenient sentence.

Absolutely agree. It's crazy how the victim's past is investigated soo much, but not the rapist. Unfortunately, with the modern rise in social media and the ease of "influencers" spreading "wrong / bad" opinions (often just to get a reaction & increase in followers), it seems like an uphill struggle to change this. We men have a LOT to learn 😡

I rember an interview with the first helicopter pilot who was shot down in the gulf war. She and her gunner were captured and riding in the back of a truck when the guy guarding them put his hand inside her pants and began exploring. Her gunner had 2 broken arms and was going crazy because he couldn't help her. The TV interviewer (a female) was shocked that would happen and asked how she stood it. Her reply was that it was nothing compared to the flight physicals she had to endure.

Perhaps there was a bit of understandable bravado going on with the female pilot, as in being a bad-ass American soldier who ain't going to admit to any weakness, no matter what her gender. Certainly not in a TV interview.

But I bet her captor/groper wouldn't have wanted to know what she imagined doing to him if she ever had half the chance.

Somehow this reminds me of the movie 'Courage Under Fire'.

@JTMac growing up, we just assumed that it was the norm for both guys and girls. Everyone hated getting called to the nurse's office for an exam. We teased each other about what the doctor was going to do during the exam. It's no wonder that so many of us developed a medical fetish.

As a male growing up in PA in the 80s into the 90s - it was at least very standard for the guys. My genital exams involved a lot of palpitation of the testicules, scrotum and penis and my friends seemed to have similar experiences. I always went to a private doctor but one friend who had his middle school physical from the school nurse indicate his genital exam included measurements. It definitely led to my medical fetish.

I also remember when this broke in PA - it got a lot of news coverage but then seemed to disappear.

I rember an interview with the first helicopter pilot who was shot down in the gulf war. She and her gunner were captured and riding in the back of a truck when the guy guarding them put his hand inside her pants and began exploring. Her gunner had 2 broken arms and was going crazy because he couldn't help her. The TV interviewer (a female) was shocked that would happen and asked how she stood it. Her reply was that it was nothing compared to the flight physicals she had to endure.

Women soldiers are told that if they’re captured they need to be prepared that they likely will be sexually abused.

Women soldiers are told that if they’re captured they need to be prepared that they likely will be sexually abused.

Sad, but most likely a realistic assumption.

I would assume, depending on the enemy, that male soldiers should also be aware of the risk they face of sexual mistreatment. In previous centuries, uncircumcised prisoners of Muslim armies faced forced circumcision. This is one of those things not openly said, but alluded to in Kipling's day for instance.

And even now, there are credible reports of prisoners being castrated in the war in the East. Let alone reports about torture to the sexual organs, the good ol' classic electrical shocks administered to the genitals, a practice so beloved of dictatorial regimes.

It's terrible how frightening that must have been for those girls. I remember being scared that my pediatrician, that I liked and was familiar with, would put her fingers into my vagina by surprise during a check up, let alone if she'd actually done it. Especially the girl who was asking for her mother!

Sad, but most likely a realistic assumption.

I would assume, depending on the enemy, that male soldiers should also be aware of the risk they face of sexual mistreatment.

They are. Anyone going through SERE or it's equivalent are told it's a possibility and how to deal with it

Even though males are not penetrated I felt some of the exams my pediatrician and her nurse practitioner did with a nurse and my mother in the room were unnecessarily long and maybe it was because I got erections but it felt like everyone moved in slow motion and my mom asked questions as well the doctor asking me questions all while exposed. I also felt a male pediatrician I was alone with when I got sick while visiting another state did an unnecessary genital exam but no one really questioned doctors then.

Even though males are not penetrated I felt some of the exams my pediatrician and her nurse practitioner did with a nurse and my mother in the room were unnecessarily long and maybe it was because I got erections but it felt like everyone moved in slow motion

This was probably a result of your own personal experience of emotions, not any true real-time, objectively measurably longer period of time.

Not to be dramatic, but these are the kind of descriptions people give in dangerous or unusually dire circumstances, such as being in battle, witnessing a dramatic event or being in an accident or victim of a crime. It is a result of being in a fear-induced state of mind.

Getting an injection is obviously not comparable to any of the above, but people can work themselves up into quite fearful states of mind needlessly.

I am male but went to school in Pennsylvania in the 80’s and 90’s never heard about this from female friends. I’ll say this where I am from in Pennsylvania this would shock me were a very tight community!!