Are mothers or fathers more influential in circumcision decision?

In my own case my father seemed to have no opinion and my mother had assumed I would be but was talked out of it as a nurse. I later had it done as an adult.

Meanwhile my son we agreed - but I was the one who was worn down. My wife was strongly pro and got her wish.

So for me and my son it was mainly the mother.

I can just also add a comment on cost - it is indeed I think more than 3000 here as an adult and it’s beckme extremely difficult to get it covered by insurance as an adult. There was a time when it was fairly easy to get it covered but as my generation grew up with a substantial minority uncircumcised a lot were doing so. I paid out of pocket but was told at the time to claim through insurance they’d need evidence beyond a doctors diagnosis. I couldn’t afford it and waited years till I was also getting a vasectomy which was covered and then only had to pay the incremental cost.

Infant circumcision aren’t covered either but are in the 300-500 range.

I can just also add a comment on cost - it is indeed I think more than 3000 here as an adult and it’s beckme extremely difficult to get it covered by insurance as an adult.

How in the world can a circumcision cost 3000 ($ I am assuming)? Not that I would want one, but that really sounds like a rip-off price to me.

How in the world can a circumcision cost 3000 ($ I am assuming)? Not that I would want one, but that really sounds like a rip-off price to me.

That's about the price I was quoted when I looked into it. There's the surgeon, 1 or 2 nurses, the operating room (this was the biggest component at like $1500), malpractice insurance, the initial consultation (you can't just show up, they want to talk to you first and examine you), administrative overhead (very large in the American healthcare system) etc.

I think both my wife and I were in agreement. She thought uncircumcised was nasty looking and my side of the family were all done shortly after birth. I am happy to not have a foreskin, my opinion is that it is more hygienic but again that is my opinion. I think 3 grand is a steal,my 4 day hospital stay was 140k for a bypass.

I think 3 grand is a steal,my 4 day hospital stay was 140k for a bypass.

Is that what you had to pay out of your own pocket? 140 000 for a bypass?

I'm not asking what the actual costs are, which I can believe to be high considering all the medical technology and personnel involved. But 140 000 out of pocket? How can anyone afford that?

Is that what you had to pay out of your own pocket? 140 000 for a bypass?

I'm not asking what the actual costs are, which I can believe to be high considering all the medical technology and personnel involved. But 140 000 out of pocket? How can anyone afford that?

That's pretty much the figure I saw when a year or two back I looked at costs that Americans had to pay for their health care. I too didn't (and still don't) see how it could be affordable.

3000 is Canadian I’m sure it would be more in the US.

It comes down to requiring booking in an operating room.

If you wanted an actual plastic surgeon it would also cost more.

Is that what you had to pay out of your own pocket? 140 000 for a bypass?

DrZ said:

That's pretty much the figure I saw when a year or two back I looked at costs that Americans had to pay for their health care. I too didn't (and still don't) see how it could be affordable.

For my 6x CABG in 1996 the hospital billed $53,000. My private insurance company got that negotiated down to $38,000. Those figures are not exact but from my memory. Then came the personal wrangling with the insurance company about individual bills they refused to pay claiming the hospital used the wrong HIPPA code or saying it was part of another HIPPA coded bill and the hospital expected ME to pay them. I sent that information to the state insurance commissioner's office and it got paid. After several of those incidents the insurance company called or wrote me telling me not to keep sending those to the insurance commissioner's office. I told them to stop refusing to pay them and I wouldn't need to, it's not MY job to know the HIPPA codes or interpret them. They argued the hospital kept me in the recovery room too long and they wouldn't pay for part of it ---- they did pay.

My total cost was the $5000 out of pocket that my policy called for. Under the old system I had much better insurance than I have now. Being self employed I couldn't afford the kind of insurance big companies give their employees. I had a $2000 deductible which meant I paid all my normal visits out of my own pocket because they never exceeded $2000. They paid 80% after that until my total personal costs reached $5000. After that they paid everything -- unless they were successful arguing about the "wrong HIPPA code", which they never were thanks to our state insurance commissioner's office.

Under today's government system that 80% goes on forever there is no out of pocket limit as far as I know.

The topic of circumcision came up when we were expecting our first child. I made it clear that although I am circumcised IF the baby were to be born male I did NOT want him circumcised. This was to be a problem because my other half is Jewish and I am not Jewish. When I challenged that we are educated, intelligent, hygienic with our daily rituals and can freely make an independent decision her response was "we do this because that is what is done." I was NOT accepting that as the only answer. I challenged back for a more thoughtful response than "circumcision just because..."

I was determined to protect my son's penis (foreskin) on his behalf. If he grew up and decided that he wanted it done for religious reasons, health reasons etc then that should be his decision to modify his own body.

I am aware of the 'ease' and forgetfulness that takes place if this is done as an infant but I am also very well aware that this is not a reversible procedure.

Ultimately, I won the battle...and then we had a daughter. LOL

Is that what you had to pay out of your own pocket? 140 000 for a bypass?

I'm not asking what the actual costs are, which I can believe to be high considering all the medical technology and personnel involved. But 140 000 out of pocket? How can anyone afford that?

I own a company and so I had insurance that covered most. I think I paid 2500 out of pocket but the insurance at my company went up for everyone for 2 years until they recouped their loss. They get you one way or the other.

In my case it was my maternal grandmother that had the most influence, she certainlly was in favour of circumcision, her brothers were done at boarding school, and she was vocal against boys playing with themselves,

my mother was also in favour as her friends boys were circumcised, and it was recommended in her childcare book,

my father was circumcised so that would have influenced my mother even if he was not directly influential himself,

add that to the school recommended boarders be circumcised, then i was destined to be cut

My mother was evidently tempted by the clean look, and I guess my father, as usual, left her the running of the kids.

In my case it was my maternal grandmother that had the most influence, she certainlly was in favour of circumcision, her brothers were done at boarding school, and she was vocal against boys playing with themselves,

That is so often what it comes down to, isn't it? Most won't say anything about it and concoct up all kinds of other rationalisations, but it's still the nasty boys masturbating that get parents and family all riled up and ready to have the boys cut.

I'm uncut, but my older brother, older by several years, was cut. I think the father has the most to say in most cases about whether to circumcise or not. That's the case with my grandsons, daddy made that decision, unfortunately.

agracier said

but it's still the nasty boys masturbating that get parents and family all riled up and ready to have the boys cut.

That may be very true, but they failed miserably in that regard if that's the reason. I would think things are messier when a circumcised boy masturbates, because he may need lubrication on his penis. Being uncut my pre-cum lubricates nicely and stays there under the foreskin unless I keep myself on the edge for a long time and it gets a chance to dry out. But the per-cum comes back pretty soon again and things slide easily once more. Personally I would never have my sons circumcised, if I had any sons. For me it's all about the sensitivity, which is lessened a we age. The head of the penis rubbing on underwear over 50, 60 or more years has an effect on the sensitivity.

agracier said "but it's still the nasty boys masturbating that get parents and family all riled up and ready to have the boys cut."

That may be very true, but they failed miserably in that regard if that's the reason..

Of course circumcision fails miserably at preventing masturbation. And you'd think that parents and especially medically trained personnel should know that by now. Yet still the idea persists, even if unspoken.

Just as so many attempts at regulating sexual activity and preferences of so many diverse kinds fails miserably. The thing is, the prudes and the religious nuts just never learn.

Under today's government system that 80% goes on forever there is no out of pocket limit as far as I know.

Note that I am only familiar with Washington's implementation, but under ACA what was eliminated was the lifetime cap for insurance companies and all the policies I have seen after ACA have had out of pocket limits that protect the patient.

Having not had employer sponsored insurance in the period around the implementation of the ACA I can say with confidence that it significantly improved the availability and coverage of policies offered to individuals, including HDHP (what you seem to have had).

Sure, insurance companies always have things set up to where they win in the big picture. Now it is a bit less egregious, but looking at my amounts I pay vs amounts paid out by insurance they're still making out very well on my family, thank you.

And I'm with you, 8 cheers for state insurance commissioners that fight to force companies to keep their end of the deal! I have talked with people in medicine who say that they know of a number of insurance companies that will deny on first claim in the hopes that you'll give up, and it works for them enough to make it worthwhile.

Agracier: I wonder what part of the drive for circumcision is motivated by curbing masturbation in children or teenagers, even though it's unsaid, and even though we know it does not prevent masturbation, it just makes it more difficult and less enjoyable.

Agracier: I wonder what part of the drive for circumcision is motivated by curbing masturbation in children or teenagers, even though it's unsaid, and even though we know it does not prevent masturbation, it just makes it more difficult and less enjoyable.

That motivation was very important and prevalent when circumcision was first being promoted and advised back in the 19th century and later. Just read up on what nutcase Kellogg had to say about male (and female) circumcision and alteration. He wasn't the first to do so, but since his name became a household word, it is easier to research more about his crazy theories on circumcision and sexuality.

I am certain that simply making masturbation less pleasurable, is already joy sufficient for those circumcision advocates.

Agracier: I know about the historical stuff (Kellogg and others) but I was wondering how much it plays a role TODAY, even if it's unsaid.

(I discovered lately that some physicians had to explicitly write "Circumcision won't cure bedwetting", so we can assume some parents believe that!)

In my case it was my maternal grandmother that had the most influence, she certainlly was in favour of circumcision, her brothers were done at boarding school, and she was vocal against boys playing with themselves,

It seems that a lot of women the age of grandmothers back then were against sexual pleasure and felt it was only their DUTY to their husbands to allow him to have sex with them. Perhaps it was their attitude that denied them pleasure and they didn't want any boys to have pleasure either. It seemed to be OK with society for them to be like that but I wonder what society would have said if grandfathers of the day insisted that girl babies have their hoods and inner lips removed.

my mother was also in favour as her friends boys were circumcised, and it was recommended in her childcare book,

Why would she know her friends boys were cut? Did they play show and tell? Again what would be said if husbands got together to compare daughters and discuss how they would look if they were modified?

My mother was evidently tempted by the clean look, and I guess my father, as usual, left her the running of the kids.

I can picture them now, sitting around the living room or the pool with the pregnant woman. C'mere Johnny show my friends your cut penis and Sam show us your uncut one. Which one do you like best? Let's ask our daughters what they think.

I don't care either way except that I feel it should be the individual's choice. If I had a partner who was providing me with fantastic sex and she wanted me cut, I would say how soon can you arrange it. The only stipulation would be I get to choose the style and if I would like to have something done to you we discuss that too.

I don't actually know if my dad is cut or not. He either is, or has a very short foreskin. My mom, however, was (is?) pro-circ. I escaped the knife because I was born very prematurely and the NICU costs for me were already stratospheric. Growing up, every so often, my mom would remark that my foreskin was unnaturally long and that it'd be cleaner if I got circumcised, but only if I wanted to. I'm glad the decision was left up to me; I opted to remain uncut and everything works fine.

All that said, my dad didn't really say anything about the matter other than to teach me how to clean it in the shower.

I don't know if there is an in general response to this. I imagine it depends on the couple, and whether one feels strongly for or against circumcision. But this would be predominantly in regards to the United States, as infant circumcision is either very much the norm, or very much not, for the rest of the world where I don't know that there would be much debate or discussion.

I don't know about who made the decision for my little brother, but I know it was just mum and I at the appointment where he was done - dad was working, so mum signed off on his snip.

One friend of mine had her son while she (Canadian) and her partner (Australian) were living in Canada - she seemed to have very definite views about circumcision when we spoke a few years ago.

Hello as a kid i had problems with the skin pulling it was stuck and couldn't pull it all the way up, my mother was very strict about it and at every bath she checked the skin she said it was not good and sometimes she was pulling a little harder painful but I suffered because I was scared to go for the circumcision she mentioned she did until she was 11 when she was able to completely cut my foreskin, sometimes it would feel uncomfortable to have an erection during the examination but all luck is it passed.

Clairsnips:

I don't know about who made the decision for my little brother, but I know it was just mum and I at the appointment where he was done - dad was working, so mum signed off on his snip.

I can't help wondering why she took you along to watch your little brother getting cut. How old were both of you at the time?

There was a story on circlist.com about a girl who said her mother took her along to watch and then she was expected to change his bandages and check to make sure it was healing properly. He was about 13 and she took a great interest in how it changed as he got older. Great story but I think that's all it was, just a story.

How did you pick your name? It gives me visions of you walking around with scissors looking for things to snip 😈 , yeouch!

My son was cut as an infant. It is the social norm down south and his relations are as well. I wanted him to feel normal.

My son was cut as an infant. It is the social norm down south and his relations are as well. I wanted him to feel normal.

This begs the question: when you say you wanted him to feel normal, does that mean you think it normal for kids to go around comparing penises with each other? From what I would think, such behavior is certainly not encouraged. It is probably reason for punishment.

Wanting you child to feel normal would be him having an acceptable style of haircut. This is something everyone can see (and judge - remember those long-haired hippy days?). Or wearing acceptable clothes and shoes. These are the things that can be seen and which can be a valid basis for judging someone as adhering to the (social) norms. But a penis? How often would anyone see that?

This begs the question: when you say you wanted him to feel normal, does that mean you think it normal for kids to go around comparing penises with each other? From what I would think, such behavior is certainly not encouraged. It is probably reason for punishment.

Wanting you child to feel normal would be him having an acceptable style of haircut. This is something everyone can see (and judge - remember those long-haired hippy days?). Or wearing acceptable clothes and shoes. These are the things that can be seen and which can be a valid basis for judging someone as adhering to the (social) norms. But a penis? How often would anyone see that?

In my own case I suffered horrific bullying at school because I wasn't circumcised when every other boy was. As much as you might try and hide yourself, kids notice these things. It might be at the urinal, it might be getting changed at the pool, whatever the case, I spent the majority of my younger life feeling like a monster because the other kids made me feel like one. Maybe I just went to a rough school (I did) and other places it wouldn't have mattered much, but having a child fit in with his peer group would be one of the primary reasons I'd consider circumcision. We are, by nature, built to be tribal. Add in the lack of social compass normal to most children and you have a recipe for misery for anyone who for whatever reason they decide, doesn't fit the status quo.

Don't know who made the decision for me - probably my mother, though my father was circumcised. It was never discussed.

My wife left the decision 100% up to me.

I'm circumcised. I chose to not have our son circumcised.

And I'm not sure who defines "normal" when it comes to this. I've seen maybe 3 or 4 other men naked in my 50 years on this planet. And I didn't look at any of their penises.

Maybe it's different if you're an athlete or in the military and see lots of men showering or whatever.