Uncouth discussion between females

I think it’s often useful to imagine such stories with the genders reversed to reveal unconscious bias.

So, suppose a bunch of male relatives had a young girl naked on the kitchen table, and variously criticised the ugliness of her genitalia as they poked and prodded and commented how it really needed to be surgically cut back soon, so it was cleaner & tidier or just more what they normally see in this state/country/religion, never mind what the later sexual or psychological affects might be.

I think most people would be dialling the Police if they thought any bunch of men were ever going to act that way. But it’s OK because these were women and therefore of unquestionable trustworthiness and sound judgement? Oh, and the victim was a young male not a female, so move on please, nothing to see here.

Just not OK, is it?

So, suppose a bunch of male relatives had a young girl naked on the kitchen table, and variously criticised the ugliness of her genitalia as they poked and prodded and commented how it really needed to be surgically cut back soon, so it was cleaner & tidier or just more what they normally see in this state/country/religion, never mind what the later sexual or psychological affects might be.

I think most people would be dialling the Police if they thought any bunch of men were ever going to act that way. But it’s OK because these were women

Very, very, very valid point and one that many will still never admit to being correct.

@BulgeInPants When I was a kid, my mother had me show my penis to my aunt so that my aunt could see if I was tight like my cousin (who had been diagnosed with phimosis). After my cousin was cut, my mother asked to see the result. It was considered acceptable for adult women to show their son's genitals to close older female relatives; it would I think have been considered highly inappropriate to have the converse (adult males showing girl genitals to other adult males not medical professionals).

After my cousin was cut, my mother asked to see the result. It was considered acceptable for adult women to show their son's genitals to close older female relatives; it would I think have been considered highly inappropriate to have the converse (adult males showing girl genitals to other adult males not medical professionals).

@Pecan_nutjob It's hard to escape the conclusion that male sexualty was considered less valuable, less deserving privacy or protection, and that those best suited to instigating irreversible sexual surgery on an unconsenting child were the relatives who have never possessed a penis.

But obviously they did have a keen eye for surgical fashion and how things looked to visiting friends and neighbours over tea and cakes.

But obviously they did have a keen eye for surgical fashion and how things looked to visiting friends and neighbours over tea and cakes.

As if their male kids ever really walked around naked with their penis on fashion display for all the world to see … it's not like this was about which pants or sweaters they were wearing. And yet the ladies seemed to act like it was.

Talk about coming up with silly rationalizations in order to do some inappropriate intimate nosing and looking around.

In my case, I was in other side. I was the one who was forced by my mother to show to my aunt my freshly circumcised penis. After that, just months later, there was my cousin circumcision. So i think this discusions are usual.

My mum used to be well-linked with all the mothers in the neighbourhood. And since she also was somehow both keen and curious about circumcision, she told me whenever another boy in the neighbourhood became circumcised (or was about to become). However, this means my mother indeed exchanged with other women about their boys' genitals. That was a weird thing to realize for me back then as a boy in puberty.

@acroposthion Whereas it would seem odd for fathers to discuss their daughters' periods.

she told me whenever another boy in the neighbourhood became circumcised (or was about to become).

How often would this have happened in Germany? It truly doesn't seem as if circumcisions would have been a frequent occurrence in Germany. I think the mothers would truly have needed a city-wide gossiping network to hear about any.

@agracier: You'd be surprised. Phimosis diagnoses are not uncommon; there may be Muslims, Jews… And some mothers just gossip! I once overhead a friend of mine joking about a neighbourhood boy who would come back from the hospital with something less.

How often would this have happened in Germany? It truly doesn't seem as if circumcisions would have been a frequent occurrence in Germany. I think the mothers would truly have needed a city-wide gossiping network to hear about any.

I indeed remember three boys by name my mother told me of in this context. The circumcision rate in Germany at this time was about 20 percent (since a significant number of pediatricians obviously followed the ideal taught back then that a foreskin, for being a foreskin, must be able to be pulled back completely and without any discomfort, no matter about the age).

The circumcision rate in Germany at this time was about 20 percent

What time/dates are you talking about? Obviously after certain dates when immigration from Muslim countries was high, the percentages would have been much higher than for native Germans only.

The same goes for many European countries. Often, a distinction is made (or attempted to be made) with exclusion of religiously mandated circumcision. With such percentages, the circumcision rate is much lower of course and approaches that of pre WWII or immediate post WWII numbers which is for people of my generation the norm.

There is a vast statistical difference when religiously mandated customs are left out, which is the only correct way of assessing percentages when talking about a medically indicated circumcision. The two are in completely different sociological (and logical) categories.

@agracier :

What time/dates are you talking about? Obviously after certain dates when immigration from Muslim countries was high, the percentages would have been much higher than for native Germans only.

In the 1970s the official guidelines in Germany used to be quite strict regarding the assessment of foreskin issues in infants. As a consequence, back then a significant number of (naturally) tight young foreskins (unnaturally) became a victim of doctors and their knifes before the first day of school. I myself knew a number of kids (and later met adults around my age) who had lost their foreskins at a rather young age.

However, fortunately, Germany has learnt in that point over the last decades. I have read and seen a lot about positive development effects in that way, resulting in the significant reduction of the number of circumcisions performed in pre-teen children in Germany.

In the time when I grew up immigration from countries with mainly Muslim people just had started. Hence, back then, only a rather small number of boys lived here who had been circumcised due to religious reasons. In contrast to medically implied circumcisions, the number of religiously cut boys has significantly risen through the last decades through the kids and grandchildren of the first Muslim immigrants (and I expect it to increase even more, also due to required refugee integration).

A few years ago, a lady friend of mine was lightly discussing she may have to have her son circumcised due to tight foreskin - the boy was to try to retract it using steroid cream, and if it failed he would be circumcised. She seemed to see no inconvenience in the procedure.

Lately she was commenting on her teenage daughter that she would not let her have any piercing (even ear lobes), tattoo or anything before the age of 18: “Nobody is punching holes into my precious baby!”.

A few years ago, a lady friend of mine was lightly discussing she may have to have her son circumcised due to tight foreskin - the boy was to try to retract it using steroid cream, and if it failed he would be circumcised. She seemed to see no inconvenience in the procedure.

Lately she was commenting on her teenage daughter that she would not let her have any piercing (even ear lobes), tattoo or anything before the age of 18: “Nobody is punching holes into my precious baby!”.

Inspiration for a movie by Brunel: 'la Charme Hypocrite de la Bourgeosie' … ha ha ha

@agracier It's quite obvious to me that for many females, the foreskin is at best a useless flap of skin, at worst something that hampers hygiene and facilitates infections; furthermore it is in a place one normally was not show (contrary to many places for tattoos etc.), and thus there is no inconvenience in having it removed.

@agracier It's quite obvious to me that for many females, the foreskin is at best a useless flap of skin, at worst something that hampers hygiene and facilitates infections; furthermore it is in a place one normally was not show (contrary to many places for tattoos etc.), and thus there is no inconvenience in having it removed.

I suspect there are also many females who prefer an uncircumcised penis - I've seen posts here that express that. Part of liking or disliking a circumcised or uncircumcised penis is probably more related to culture, upbringing and exposure.

@Rigel I did not mean that my friend preferred circumcised over uncircumcised. Rather, it was some kind of indifference, “what difference would it make”, “it's what the doctor advised”.

I suspect there are also many females who prefer an uncircumcised penis - I've seen posts here that express that. Part of liking or disliking a circumcised or uncircumcised penis is probably more related to culture, upbringing and exposure.

Since some two thirds of the world's males are not circumcised, I wouldn't say many, but most females prefer an uncircumcised penis and certainly consider it to be the norm.

Not so much uncouth as just not leaving much to the imagination. But I recall hearing my Aunt and Mother talking about how to care for my cousins just circumcised penis. From my mother it was “I did that” which of course referred to the care of my penis after I had been circumcised.

@kiwibloke Right, this between your mother and your aunt was factual and was about exchanging tips for medical care.

My friend was giggling with another female about a boy from her neighborhood who would go to the hospital and come back with something missing. I was a bit shocked, I actually asked if I understood it correctly that she referred to circumcision. She giggled more and explained she knew about it because mothers chat together.

I wouldn't say it is uncouth to discuss circumcision or anything medical; taboo topics exist if people are uncomfortable to discuss it.

I think being made to to show your auntie your foreskin is odd though unless had any medical background.

As for her commenting on daughter getting piercing or tatteos out right ban it now and as an adult she is likely to get a tonn of both to prove a point to her mom

I've mentioned in this thread that I have brought the topic up with a good number of women - mostly in their 20s and 30s (my age-ish). General reactions are blithe: “Aren't most guys circumcised?" or “That's the only way I've known it” or “Doesn't it hurt when it's done?” I don't usually volunteer my own status since that would be kind of weird, lol.

Basically, I just don't think the topic is on many women's minds until they have to make a decision for an unborn son. Or there's a remarkable sexual experience, positive or negative, one way or the other with respect to the penis.

Basically, I just don't think the topic is on many women's minds until they have to make a decision for an unborn son. Or there's a remarkable sexual experience, positive or negative, one way or the other with respect to the penis.

I'm going to bet the topic is on young lady's/women's minds when they first start dating and wonder what they are going to encounter once her beau's pants come off … this would be well before any experience with a penis.

I wouldn't say it is uncouth to discuss circumcision

It would depend on how a conversation is held whether it is uncouth, dismissive, denigrating, derogative, infantile, coarse, uncultured and so on.

From reading here, I would say that many females do like to make light of circumcision and do so like to treat the procedure dismissively on that account. It often sounds like they do experience a fair amount of Schadenfreude at males being circumcised.

It often sounds like they do experience a fair amount of Schadenfreude at males being circumcised.

This seems so true … what a sad position. However, this also might go for some males (mostly uncircumcised) talking about guys who have to or already had become circumcised …

This seems so true … what a sad position.

Thinking on this during the day, I would not be surprised if some females, whether consciously or subconsciously, might see circumcision as a sort of tit for tat for females having their hymen broken in order to have 'normal'/penetrative sex.

Both are painful and involve the letting of blood and the breaking/cutting of skin. They might see it as a bit of getting back for what they had to go through.

might see circumcision as a sort of tit for tat for females having their hymen broken in order to have 'normal'/penetrative sex. Both are painful and involve the letting of blood and the breaking/cutting of skin.

The most obvious difference is that the hymen is by nature meant to break. However, might be true that some females see/feel it that way.

I have read symbolic comparisons of light injuries of the penis of rather young men happening at their initial sexual intercourse with the breaking of the hymen (i.e. a fissure or overtearing of the male foreskin or frenulum).

From reading here, I would say that many females do like to make light of circumcision and do so like to treat the procedure dismissively on that account. It often sounds like they do experience a fair amount of Schadenfreude at males being circumcised.

It is, after all, just a little snip ✂️❤️

It often sounds like they do experience a fair amount of Schadenfreude at males being circumcised.

I did a search on social media and I came along a Jewish woman who said she felt some “circumcision impulse” when she hears about males misbehaving sexually. It seems she would consider circumcision an appropriate punishment for this.