LGBT - re-added

This section was lost when Groups were lost. Sorry for that.

But now this can get a new life here.

What is this about? Sorry I'm a lil lost.

What is this about? Sorry I'm a lil lost.

LGBT section in discussion has been added. We had groups before (they are gonne now) this section was in group..

Group lost =LGBT section lost.

LGBT section back in discussion.

LGBT-LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL AND TRANSGENDER

This section talks about psycology related to LGBT.

It's "psycology corner".

Did It help? Lol

Yes, yes it did 😄 thanks!

Hello

Not sure if I'm bisexual or just bi curious. I've fantasized for many years of sex with a man and mmf threesomes. I love bi and even gay porn sometimes. I finally got up the nerve to actually meet up with a guy and engage in mutual oral sex with him years ago. I loved it but haven't played since, just online. I want very much to find the right guy and continue my bisexual exploration.

Trans Man :

I would like to find some buddies who are willing to have an open discussion about all things trans male, whether they be good or bad.

I’m short so, that makes me feel as though I’m not a real man. I hate my boobs and I wish that I could have stopped them from ever growing.

Sometimes when I’m alone, I watch videos of people having sex and when I really concentrate, it’s like I can remember what it feels like to have a penis. Like I’ve had one before in another life.

I recently read something that said that souls pick a main gender to be born as, but sometimes they choose to be another gender. If that is true, I wonder why...

Who’s ready to converse?

I would like to find some buddies who are willing to have an open discussion about all things trans male, whether they be good or bad.

Hi SamBrad,

i find gender and sexual orientation to be a vast topic and really appreciate anyone who wants to delve into, explore and discuss those topics, so, thanks for your post.

my own feel is that our social views and attitudes are largely heteronormative and heavily influenced by patriarchal ideas (ideas often assumed to be "facts" or "truth"). i try to practice awareness based on listening/hearing, looking/seeing vs drawing conclusions from preconceived notions. That practice is not always as easy or basic as it sounds because so many of our ideas fly under the radar and we aren't even aware that we possess them. i am grateful that i am different ("gay") because that reality was responsible for literally forcing me to question my own cultural ideas and dispositions. i suspect many on this site have discovered the same gift, that their differences, 'kinks,' can have an added benefit of disposing them towards questioning the 'norm.'

i've only had a few relationships (that i was aware of) with trans people. The first was with "Jen" (FTM). Jen is a remarkable person who i met after i first divorced (from a woman). After 31 years of marriage, i still had a question as to whether or not i might be Bi. In that context, polyamory made sense to me, so i met Jen on a poly site. At that time, Jen had already been in a 10 year relationship with a woman and the two of them were seeking another. Jen affected me in so many ways, one being that, relationship with Jen forced me to be aware of many of my own predispositions. i met Jen 10 years ago. Being newly divorced, i was still discovering a lot about myself. Jen wanted a physical relationship and i wasn't ready for that, so unfortunately (to my way of reckoning) Jen largely withdrew. We're still "friends" on FB, but we stopped traveling (Jen in FL and i was in KY at the time) to see each other.

The biggest obstacle for me at the time was that my perception of Jen was as female, not male. (Jen hadn't transitioned in any way physically). While cognitively i accepted Jen as Jen identified, i was not sexually attracted to Jen and there were parts of Jen that, on an emotional level, struck me as 'female.' Which is not to say that is 'right' perception. i have an ongoing question about what actually ('naturally?') constitutes "masculine," "feminine," "female," "male," and how much of that is a cultural construct?

For instance, You note "remember[ing] what it feels like to have a penis...." From what i have learned about Trans people, they usually have the brain of one gender and the body of another, but it's the brain that is dominant in what ultimately determines their gender? In that context, i would see your remembering as a sort of phantom limb experience. Amputees often experience very real pain in limbs they no longer possess because, even though the limb is gone, the brain still 'sees' it. In a similar way, i wonder if even though your body didn't physically develop a penis, your brain still sees it?

My son is gay. The only time we talked about it, I told him I don't want to know any more about his sex life than his brother's. Just like he doesn't want to know about his mother's and my sex life. I told him I do care about how he treats others, that he is honest, and above all never votes Republican.

I feel the same way about you being a transmale. I hope you a good guy. Let's hang out sometime and belch.

I know this post is a little old by now, but I'm a short trans guy (5'0"). I was also worried about my height before I transitioned but it's just something that I live with, and it doesn't seem to make people see me as any less of a man. I'm happy to talk with you if you're still looking to connect with someone.

Tallslenderguy,

Sorry it's taken me forever to reply, but I had forgotten that I wrote that until I stumbled across it today.

For me, I am agnostic and I believe in reincarnation, so I believe that in my previous lives that I was male. I feel so weird having to live in this female body. I actually cringe every time I hear someone say "ma'am" because my brain tells me that it's not correct.

Tallslenderguy,

Sorry it's taken me forever to reply, but I had forgotten that I wrote that until I stumbled across it today.

For me, I am agnostic and I believe in reincarnation, so I believe that in my previous lives that I was male. I feel so weird having to live in this female body. I actually cringe every time I hear someone say "ma'am" because my brain tells me that it's not correct.

lol, i hate when i forget a post. No worries, glad you replied :-)

i suppose i fall into the agnostic category too, simply because there's no place else to put me? The most i cans say is, to me, there seems to be 'something other.' That's about the best i can do. i cannot define it or produce evidence supporting my belief. i like the idea of reincarnation, but again, cannot bring myself to commit to something that defined and unsubstantiated. So, i live and dwell mostly in the "i don't know" category and am mostly a proponent of science.

i can see how reincarnation offers a type of explanation for your position. How did you come to believe in it?

I would like to find some buddies who are willing to have an open discussion about all things trans male, whether they be good or bad.

I’m short so, that makes me feel as though I’m not a real man. I hate my boobs and I wish that I could have stopped them from ever growing.

Sometimes when I’m alone, I watch videos of people having sex and when I really concentrate, it’s like I can remember what it feels like to have a penis. Like I’ve had one before in another life.

I recently read something that said that souls pick a main gender to be born as, but sometimes they choose to be another gender. If that is true, I wonder why...

Who’s ready to converse?

.

This is the best and most politically incorrect advice you are going to get:

Instead of having people try most likely in vain, by giving silly, albeit well meaning advice to help you to be something you clearly are NOT, why not accept what you truly are and make great things of it. JUST DO IT.

YOU ARE NOT YOUR BODY.

It doesn't matter if you have two balls hanging between your legs or two tits hanging from your chest.

Your body is nothing more than the vessel for your being/your brain.

Come on, you don't really believe you have died and come back do you? You must realize that when you die it's game over and you just rot in the ground.

Nobody's life is perfect, Everyone has some cross to bear so to speak, and everyone does what they have to do to either get by or to flourish. Decide to Flourish.

If I had a dick and no tits, I would still be more or less the same as I am now. If I had to work today, I know I could do it because when I was younger and absolutely had to work, I did and it was good.

There are extremely few jobs that you have to be a male in order to do (and at the moment I can't really think of any), so take your tits and get out there and do something productive that you enjoy doing.

This is the best and most politically incorrect advice you are going to get:

Instead of having people try most likely in vain, by giving silly, albeit well meaning advice to help you to be something you clearly are NOT, why not accept what you truly are and make great things of it. JUST DO IT.

YOU ARE NOT YOUR BODY.

It doesn't matter if you have two balls hanging between your legs or two tits hanging from your chest.

Your body is nothing more than the vessel for your being/your brain.

I'm not sure why SwitchableSusie gets so up in arms about this topic. Lots of people transition and go on to have great lives, myself included. The question of whether physical transition "really" changes someone's sex is a red herring. The point is that you change to a gender presentation that's in line with your being/brain, and you go on and live your life. Whether I am a "real" male isn't really something I think about. Everyone around me just thinks I'm a guy. This is infinitely more comfortable and "right" than when everyone thought I was female. What my DNA says, and the fact that it will never change, really doesn't matter to me or to the people around me who just see a dude.

Obviously my experience growing up as a girl makes me different from other guys. I don't deny that at all. But that doesn't change the fact that transitioning in my 20s and spending the rest of my life being seen as a guy was absolutely the best decision for me. You can't change how nature made you, but you can choose how to live the rest of your life.

Being trans doesn't mean a person is delusional, though it can make them depressed and anxious for a while.

The OP may or may not believe in reincarnation. Trans people often use metaphors to try to explain what it's like.

For some people, deciding to flourish means transitioning. For others, it doesn't. That's cool too. Everyone has to figure out their own path.

I'm not up in arms about the topic. I simply stated the realities of life and that you should make the very best of what you really are, not a counterfeit version of something else.

The realities of life are that some people are better off transitioning. Some aren't. The vast majority of people would never think about it, and can't fathom what it would be like to want to transition. That's totally fine. I don't ask or expect people to understand the trans experience. I just don't see why some feel the need to tell trans people on anonymous internet forums that they're delusional and just need to buck up and accept themselves, as though they've never thought to try that, or they haven't heard it before from anyone else. What does it accomplish?

@Cesario said

The realities of life are that some people are better off transitioning. Some aren't. The vast majority of people would never think about it, and can't fathom what it would be like to want to transition. That's totally fine. I don't ask or expect people to understand the trans experience. I just don't see why some feel the need to tell trans people on anonymous internet forums that they're delusional and just need to buck up and accept themselves, as though they've never thought to try that, or they haven't heard it before from anyone else. What does it accomplish?

.

@SamBradC1988 said

I would like to find some buddies who are willing to have an open discussion about all things trans male, whether they be good or bad.

@SamBradC1988 asked for a discussion on "all things trans male, whether they be good or bad."

I am discussing it, Cesario, and I am specifically responding to your post.

This is a forum. The purpose of a forum is to exchange ideas.

I gave mine. You don't have to like them or put them into practice.

If you want to go through the plastic surgery or wardrobe changes to alter your outward appearance, that's fine with me, but I may decide not to play along with your game.

The suicide rate before and after transitioning is the same so "transitioning" apparently doesn't to anything for the trans person other than require the purchase of a new wardrobe and/or subject them to a lot of plastic surgery.

What is between the ears makes the person, NOT what is between the legs.

I am discussing it, Cesario, and I am specifically responding to your post.

This is a forum. The purpose of a forum is to exchange ideas.

Fair enough.

The suicide rate before and after transitioning is the same so "transitioning" apparently doesn't to anything for the trans person other than require the purchase of a new wardrobe and/or subject them to a lot of plastic surgery.

Not sure where you're getting this statistic, since most trans people who commit suicide before transitioning probably don't get counted as trans in the research -- most of them wouldn't have come out, so there would be no way to identify them as trans. Regardless, even if the suicide rate were the same before and after, that wouldn't mean that transitioning doesn't help those who don't commit suicide. Obviously one would want to see a decrease in suicides, but it could be that there is a percentage of people who will have serious trouble whether or not they transition, while there are many others for whom transition makes life much better.

What is between the ears makes the person, NOT what is between the legs.

I'm genuinely curious about your statement here, because usually this sentiment is meant to support people transitioning. Typically when I have heard this, the person has accepted the statement that trans people essentially have brains of the opposite gender, and that changing the body (or at least the gender presentation in terms of clothes, hairstyle, etc.) is appropriate to bring it into line with the brain. But based on your other statements here and elsewhere on the topic, I assume that is not what you're saying. You seem to mean that trans men have female brains, and that surgery won't change that. This is interesting because essentialist arguments about gender usually center on the (non-brain parts of the) body or on the DNA, not on the brain.

I have no expectation that we're going to change each other's minds about this. I'm just always a little puzzled when people who (presumably) aren't trans seem to feel so strongly about the topic. (The "presumably" is not aimed at you specifically -- it's just an acknowledgement that I have no way of knowing who's on the other side of the screen or what their deal is.)

What is between the ears makes the person, NOT what is between the legs.

I'm genuinely curious about your statement here, because usually this sentiment is meant to support people transitioning.

OK, you got me, I should have not used a cliche.

You are what your chromosomes say you are.

People should accept what they are instead of trying to be a counterfeit version of what they are not.

instead of trying to be a counterfeit version of what they are not.

You can read this two ways - also as why should someone try to live in a role they're not fit/destined to... I don't think they're counterfeiting - they're just different enough to be better off as other sex. Chromosomes yes - they're different, but not different enough to be another spieces - in fact so close to be enough biologically compatible to be able to produce offspring. In my opinion close enough that nature's variations and nurture can make it cross the line (if there is any - as we have same tissues, same hormones, just in a bit different places and proportions).

To me it's a bit like homosexuality - no one asks for it, but with enough genetic predisposition and "right" circumstances it happens that someone likes same sex individuals. It's not that they're faking it or trying to be different for the sake of it. They are like that.

OK, you got me, I should have not used a cliche.

I'm really not trying to play a game of "gotcha" here.

People should accept what they are instead of trying to be a counterfeit version of what they are not.

For trans people, it's the gender role they're born into that feels counterfeit. I can see why people who don't have that experience can't imagine what it's like. When your brain and body match, the notion that they could be mismatched is unfathomable. All I can tell you is that it's possible, that it's miserable, and that transitioning makes it better for the vast majority of people who do it.

Transitioning means deciding that it's better to spend the rest of one's life as what you would call a "counterfeit" man or woman, than to spend the rest of one's lives in one's birth gender. And for the vast majority of people who transition, this is true. All trans men know perfectly well that they're different from people who were born male, and all trans women know that they're different from people who were born female. Transitioning is still the best option in many cases. Trans people may be what you call "counterfeit" men and women, but by transitioning they become more genuine versions of themselves. And in the end we all have to live with ourselves.

@cesario said

For trans people, it's the gender role they're born into that feels counterfeit. . . . .

That would be a mental illness to not accept your body for what it is. The American Psychological Society has been very careful to be politically correct so they don't offend anyone on this.

Transitioning means deciding that it's better to spend the rest of one's life as what you would call a "counterfeit" man or woman, than to spend the rest of one's lives in one's birth gender. And for the vast majority of people who transition, this is true. All trans men know perfectly well that they're different from people who were born male, and all trans women know that they're different from people who were born female. Transitioning is still the best option in many cases. Trans people may be what you call "counterfeit" men and women, but by transitioning they become more genuine versions of themselves. And in the end we all have to live with ourselves.

What exactly are you calling transitioning? Is it getting a new wardrobe and putting on make-up? That's just cross-dressing. Is it surgery to simulate sex organs of the opposite sex? Trans men know they are different from real males/men because they are females and have the two X chromosomes to prove it. The same is true for trans women. They are males and all the plastic surgery in the world isn't going to change that. Every cell in the trans woman's body is male except for half their sperm. Sex is NOT ASSIGNED at birth. At birth they tell you what you actually are. If there is a genetically related birth defect, they tell you that too. Trans people don't become more genuine versions of themselves, they become counterfeit versions of what they think they should or want to be. People can do whatever they want with their bodies but in situations where their "transitioning" affects other people, I may decide not to go along with their game.

Sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying! Changing your phenotype surgically does NOT change your genotype! If you were born male, no amount of surgery or hormone treatment will make you female, and vice-versa. My first comment arose from a post on another board, years ago. It related the story of a guy who got surgically altered to appear to be female. (Note that I said "appear"!) He subsequently started a lesbian relationship with a real female! WTF!!!

For those interested: https://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

"Genetic Components of Sex and Gender

Humans are born with 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs. The X and Y chromosomes determine a person’s sex. Most women are 46XX and most men are 46XY. Research suggests, however, that in a few births per thousand some individuals will be born with a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies). In addition, some males are born 46XX due to the translocation of a tiny section of the sex determining region of the Y chromosome. Similarly some females are also born 46XY due to mutations in the Y chromosome. Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex"

What you posted is correct but what you neglected to convey is that those chromosomal anomalies/abnormalities are MUTATIONS AND BIRTH DEFECTS associated with various syndromes and do not reflect normal genetic make-up.

I find this a complicated and emotional subject.

As a gay person, i am was effected (and still am) by the notion that being gay is a mental illness. i spent most of my life trying to not be 'gay.' I've been through a lot of "reparative therapy," the shrink treatment from the other side, those considering that part of me a "mental illness." I wanted to change. I had the added notion that "God" thinks gay is twisted, sick, sin, etc., (whatever the cultural label of choice) too. Homosexuality was listed as a mental illness on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) prior to 1973. Transgender was listed similarly prior to 2008.

Now Trans is considered a "variant." That's a de-stigmatized from "mental illness." I think that is a good thing. The majority of mental health scientists agree, but not all of them. Welcome to research and science. The reason i like "variant" is because i think it is more honest. I also think it is more civilized and safer for society. , i was arrested in Virginia in 1998 for asking an undercover "vice" cop if he wanted to fuck. He was at a gay park pretending to be gay trying to entrap gay people, a common vice cop technique then. I was charged with a felony under a 100 year old "sodomy law" that made it illegal for two guys too have sex. That would never happen if a guy asked a woman if she wanted to have sex. When the case came to court, the judge rolled his eyes and threw it out. The prosecuting attorney was livid. The attorney general he worked for had instructed him to go for blood. That attorney general later became governor of VA, Bob McDonell. I'd rather promote the attitudes that the judge had, that being gay is a sexual variant, than what that lawyer and his boss have, i.e., being gay is perverted and mentally ill. "McDonnell worked tirelessly to block and dismantle gay rights during his time in office—in 2010, he sneakily removed discrimination protections for LGBT workers in Virginia by executive order. He also viciously defended the state's gay marriage ban and suggested gay parents are inferior to straight ones."

We do not know everything, we do not see everything. We used to think that all women have 46xx chromosomes and all men have 46xy chromosomes. Then research discovered variants. What does that mean? idk. my favorite line in most studies is "more research is needed."

Many used to believe (some emphatically) the atom is the smallest unit of matter, then we discovered quarks and leptons. Oops, lol.

@ cesario. i don't think you are mentally ill. You are different from me, and i don't pretend to understand you or your situation, but i appreciate the opportunity to learn your perspective.

Thanks for sharing your story

"What you posted is correct but what you neglected to convey is that those chromosomal anomalies/abnormalities are MUTATIONS AND BIRTH DEFECTS associated with various syndromes and do not reflect normal genetic make-up."

Good point! Chromosomal anomalies/abnormalities are mutations (aka evolution) that (if one believes in evolution) resulted in the progression from ape to people.

Good point! Chromosomal anomalies/abnormalities are mutations (aka evolution) that (if one believes in evolution) resulted in the progression from ape to people.

In view of the fact that many animals, humans included that have chromosomal abnormalities, especially sex chromosomal abnormalities are STERILE, you can't exactly say that advances evolution.

In view of the fact that many animals, humans included that have chromosomal abnormalities, especially sex chromosomal abnormalities are STERILE, you can't exactly say that advances evolution.

Reading my comments one can see i'm not inclined to assert "exactly," about pretty much anything except arithmetic. I am more inclined to question absolutes. i appreciate that that you qualify "many" and not all, because you can't exactly say that circumvents evolution.

Viruses lack the ability to reproduce without a host, they are essentially STERILE, yet the flu, HIV, etc., have survived by evolutionary advances.

Reading my comments one can see i'm not inclined to assert "exactly," about pretty much anything except arithmetic. I am more inclined to question absolutes. i appreciate that that you qualify "many" and not all, because you can't exactly say that circumvents evolution.

Viruses lack the ability to reproduce without a host, they are essentially STERILE, yet the flu, HIV, etc., have survived by evolutionary advances.

That has nothing to do with this. Besides, viruses are not sterile despite their needing a host in which to reproduce. That's how they work. An apple seed isn't sterile but it needs oxygen and water in order to germinate, and carbon dioxide, minerals and sunlight to reproduce the apple/tree. Big deal. You are comparing apples and oranges.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Comparing apes and people probably would have been better. If apes thought such things, i wonder if the changes that occurred during evolution from ape to homo would have been labeled as defects since they were a departure from the norm.

i don't want to depart from the point, which is anomalies and variants are a part of life. One can communicate those differences using those words, like the APA has purposefully done with the intent to de-stigmatize the people who are variant. Instead, one can use terms like abnormalities, defects, mental illness that offend and stigmatize. I think the former way is the better choice.

@SwitchableSusie As I said earlier, we're obviously not going to change each others' minds on this topic. But as you said, this is a forum, and the purpose of a forum is to exchange ideas.

What exactly are you calling transitioning?

Transitioning generally means living in the gender role that's opposite what you were born as. No one claims that transitioning -- whether it involves surgery or not -- changes anyone's cells or DNA. Pointing out this fact doesn't add any new information for anyone. As for what transitioning actually entails: For many people, it involves some kind of surgery. For some, it doesn't.

Trans people don't become more genuine versions of themselves, they become counterfeit versions of what they think they should or want to be.

We clearly fundamentally disagree on what it means to be "genuine." Perhaps you'll be surprised that I won't wade into the "is being transgender a mental illness" debate because it means you also have to also debate the meaning of "mental illness," which isn't really a question for laypeople to meaningfully argue over. However, I think the mental illness debate is a misleading one. The best outcome for most people who want to transition, is for them to actually transition. If it's not a mental illness, then it's a non-mentally-ill person making a choice that will probably improve their life. If it is a mental illness, then the best way to "treat" it is to allow the person transition and help them map out a plan that's likely to be successful. Either situation leads to transition. How difficult this is, largely depends on the reactions that the trans person gets from the people around them.

People can do whatever they want with their bodies but in situations where their "transitioning" affects other people, I may decide not to go along with their game.

Are there situations where someone transitioning affects other people, aside from (a) when you happen to know the trans person at the the time they actually transition, as opposed to meeting them long afterward, in which case you may not know at all, or (b) if you want to sleep with them or have children with them?