Different circumcision outcomes

When my cousin was circumcised for phimosis, his physician (well, my aunt's) apparently claimed this was not the same thing as a circumcision for Jews, that more skin was left.

So I'm curious: is there a difference in final outcome between various styles of circumcision? Ritual Jewish, ritual Muslim, for phimosis, at birth (American-style)? Are there styles where more skin is removed, where the frenulum is removed, as opposed to others? Is there any visual difference? In the areas retained? In the areas exposed?

I've read some posts about high vs low and tight vs loose but I don't really understand. Maybe this could be explained in layman's terms, with reference to anatomical parts and perhaps links to photos.

Try this page

http://www.circlist.com/rites/rites.html

There's also tons of other information on that site.

Jds4med: I don't fully get the schematics on that page and I have trouble imagining the various results in practice - and also which one corresponds to which method or tradition.

Maybe the GP meant that a Jewish circumcision is tight whereas my cousin had it loose?

Historically, the 'Jewish' circumcision is done with little mechanical aid. Even further back in time, it was what would be considered a partial circumcision. It was simply removing the very end of the foreskin - just enough to expose the end of the glans. I don't think there's any way to decipher what that doc was talking about.

The much more common circumcision involves removal of the entire foreskin and frenulum (skin attaching the foreskin to the under side of the glans. The various styles have to do with how much tissue is left. For example, when flaccid, I have a ring of loose skin (scar) right behind my glans. There are times when - probably due to excess weight) where my penis sort of inverts. I'm guessing mine would be called low and loose.

High and tight would probably have to do with how much stretch was applied to the shaft skin before the cut or crush was applied. The scar is flat and further up the shaft.

Jds4med: High vs low seems to be whether part of the inner or outer foreskin is retained, tight vs loose whether the resulting skin is still loose or not on an erect member. But it's a bit difficult for me to imagine the difference in result: is tight really tight?

I'm quite curious about this very subject too. I've looked at a lot of photos and I have a pretty discerning eye, but I think I lack a grasp of the nomenclature. I'm interested in knowing about cultural/religious differences in styles as well.

As for myself, I assume I have a "high and loose" because my scar is almost a 1/3 of the way down my shaft when erect, but I still have my frenulum and the skin bunches up against my corona when flaccid. I may be mistaken.

Cleanbean: By 'scar' you mean the transition from normal skin to something very thin and rosy? (I should try to measure that on me if I fully pull the foreskin back.)

OMG circumcision again?? Seriously who really cares at this late point? Just make the best of what you have and forget about it. Some people just have too much time on their hands

Liquidsky: I'm sorry, but due to personal events I'm very curious about it. This is a forum for kinks and medical fetishes, and curiosity for circumcision is a medical fetish.

Yes liquidsky (I got such a kick out of that cult B-movie BTW), circumcision again! As much as many of us have strong opinions on the practice, many of us have a strong curiosity regarding the varied results. Mine is a desire for imperical knowledge and understanding of what is out there in the world, verging to a celebration of the diversity.

Just as I and many other men appreciate the fantastically wide variety in female vulvar presentations, the male anatomy is fascinating to a lot of us too. Circumcision adds much to the variation.

I enjoy the conversation on the topic here. I don't get to see a lot of dicks in person, much as I might like to.

Cleanbean; So I restate my question from before Liquidsky's interruption - what is what you call the "scar", the position of which you measure? The line between pink thin skin and normal skin? Is this what the site refers to as limit between former inner foreskin and outer foreskin?

cleanbean: By 'scar' you mean the transition from normal skin to something very thin and rosy? (I should try to measure that on me if I fully pull the foreskin back.)

No PN. The 'scar' I refer to on my member is a dark-pigmented ring that runs around the circumference of my shaft. There is little, if any, difference in the skin qualities above and below the 'scar.' There is a very slight difference in sensitivity below the scar, at the scar site, and between it and the glans.

Honestly, I'm still trying to sort out what the website refers to as you are.

Cleanbean: Oh, so you have no "pink zone" behind the glans, until the actual skin? I thought it was like that on all circumcised men, according to photographs.

So do I understand you have "normal" skin starting from the glans? How about your frenulum?

Right. I have no pink skin on my willie. It's all pretty much the same, including the frenulum.

Even my glans has hardly any difference in skin color. I expect the glans on an uncircumcised penis would be more pink/purple and slick/sensitive. I have no real experience in that area. All the penises with which I have had up close encounters were circumcised and in my own generational cohort, so the styles were very similar. And I really wasn't as attentive to the details way back then as I would be now. Besides not many of those viewings and only the precious few handling of other guys' cocks were sexual in nature.

Both my father (96) and my son (17) are uncircumcised, but let's face it, I can't really inspect those.

Cleanbean: So maybe you had what that site refers to as "low" circumcision...

Frankly that site lacks pictures of all cases, in erect and flaccid states. Then we could understand!

Regarding your lack of experience with uncircumcised penises, that seems common for Americans: my (then girlfriend, now) wife has not seen any, at least in real life, before me, and my mother in law was amazed that we did not have our son circumcised - to her it was just something normal done to all newborns.

I think the ideal would be to have circumcised members of the forum post flaccid and erect pictures along with the age (birth? child? teen? later?) and reason of circumcision, and country or region, so that we can understand things a bit more.

I don't think pictures of children would be appropriate and they are not permitted here as far as I'm aware.

Rockdoc: I was not clear enough. I was referring to pictures of adult members of the forum, but asking when the surgery took place. Presumably the result is not the same for a circumcision at birth and one on a teen!

I'm sure PN means age at which circumcision was performed.

The thought of us posting photos crossed my mind too, but you beat me to mentioning it PN. I think it's a great idea. I wonder if there is a way we can keep it together in the gallery. I think only the creator can post to an album.

OMG, how many camels could we possibly fit through the eye of a needle? PN I'm beginning to find your interest in this prurient.

I'm especially curious at seeing flaccid vs erect, to get an impression of things... also have you retained your frenulum?

I'm wondering for instance if everybody has this "pink area" behind the glans if the skin is pull back. I read it's thin and highly sensitive, seems to be a remainder of the inner foreskin, no? Or are there some people for which it's normal thick skin up to the glans?

Are there circumcised people that, when flaccid, have the glans partially covered? Or some area behind the glans uncovered?

Liquidsky: My interest in this IS prurient indeed. This is a fetish site! What are we discussing if not prurient issues!

I must say I had what was noted as a handsome photo of my very erect penis in the gallery, but it was taken down after about 2 weeks. Perhaps the lone shot was considered a bit lascivious

This display would be empirical and purposeful though.

PN I'm beginning to find your interest in this prurient.

I don't think you have any idea how it feels to have the threat of circumcision hanging over your teenage head for years on end. Especially when circumcision is in your culture a gross statistical abnormality or an otherwise obvious and undeniable sign of a religious affiliation you do not share.

Try imagining if every doctor visit or school exam might not again trigger a parent's or doctor's insistence that it be performed. And remember, this in a culture that does not praise and elevate circumcision. In the US there is all that 'clean cut American boy' and sport jock he-man stuff bandied about that makes circumcision seem attractive and manly.

In other countries, there is nothing similar. Natural health and attractiveness is based on completeness and having an unaltered body. It has been the European cultural norm since Antiquity and been upheld throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance and later by Christian churches. It is visible in almost every public space or museum (and churches) that has nude statues or paintings. National and historic buildings may be adorned with (heroic looking) uncircumcised nude male figures for all to see and unconsciously absorb into their mental map of what it means to be a citizen and member of this or that country.

So, it's to be expected that some members will have a fascination with an opposed culture like that of the US in which circumcision is elevated to an almost absolute good and norm.

It's a subject that will never cease to interest some members.

I agree with agracier. It is an interesting topic. In my country circumcision is rarely performed anyway concerns about the hygiene of the penis, phimosis are always present during pediatric examinations and in child care. The surgery is always dreaded by young patients. I remember some genital examination at the pediatrician where he discussed this solution to my phimosis and subsequent treatments become necessary.

Back to the thread topic: I think circumcision outcomes are most influenced by surgical techniques.

Most common techniques are the following:

Guided methods:

foreskin is clamped with an hemostat/shield/other instrument and cut with a scalpel or hot wire coaugulator sliding against the tip of the instrument to protect the glans.

Generally used by untrained personnel.

Shield is also used in Jews circumcision, variant are typical in islamic, balcanic and other populations.

Traditional Jews circumcision involves only the cutting of the tip of the foreskin. The frenulum is not removed although it will not develop because the operation is done in early age before puberty. Often the procedure does not require the retraction of the foreskin which is let adherent to the glans as in majority of new borns. Today ritual Jew circumcision is more radical to prevent partial coverage of the glans with the preputial remnants.

Other guided method circumcisions typical in islamic countries implies removal of part of the inner and outer foreskin. Due to the little streatching of the foresking the clamping involve also part of the frenulum and it is generally removed with the cut of the prepuce. The operation is done during puberty often without anhestesia and in domestic settings, final result is a moderate high and quite loose circumcision (it depends on how much the foreskin is stretched during the procedure).

Dorsal slit circumcisions:

very common with non specilistic medical personnel.

Prepuce is clamped with two hemostats and a third is applied dorsally. A dorsal slit is done to open the prepuce. It is then removed with scissors and stitches applied. It generally requires more skills, more surgical instruments and time. Result is more repeatable and it is generally a low and tight circumcision. Due to the removal of a conspicuous part of inner prepuce the frenulum is also cut with scissors. Used especially in puberal and post puberal patients when treated by non specialist medical personnel.

Resection sleeve:

used by specialist andrology/urology surgeons.

It is essentially a plastic surgery consisting in cutting two circular incisions on the retracted penis to remove a sort of sleeve of skin comprising part of the inner and outer prepuce. It is the most versatile technique. It permits all kinds of circumcision outcomes. If the distal incision is prossimal to the ridged band the surgeon can remove only the outer prepuce and let the frenulum absolutely intact if necessary. The aspect of the penis in that case is similar of an always retracted intact penis... It definitely determines a very high and thigh circumcision. If the proximal incision is proximal respect the ridged band it determines a low circumcision and the frenulum cannot be saved.

Other techniques requires commercial clamps with intermediate results depending on the type of the clamp itself.

The most common method by far in the states is the plastic bell. It is slipped over the glans and then the foreskin is compressed with a ligature. The lack of blood supply causes the foreskin to necrose and after a couple of days the whole the bell just drops off. The gomco method is used less frequently. A metal tool placed over the glans and the foreskin is cut with a scalpel. It's quicker but the plastibell is idiot proof.

Liquidsky: But what is the overall outcome? Apparently, depending on the man, more or less skin has been removed... Does it depend on the way the Plastibell is used? And does it remove the frenulum?

The plastibell is seated down against the where the foreskin meets the glans and so the same amount of tissue is removed. The gomco is a little more difficult to use. The frenulum is not touched. Really circumcision is such a minor procedure when done in the perinatal period. It's a bigger thing when done later. It's so minor that they let us interns do it. We called it our "free willie" time in the morning. Right after rounds and before lunch.

Using the various crushing/cutting devices, I believe that it depends on how much traction is applied to the foreskin before the device is tightened. Everything that goes past the crush point is removed.

Plastibell https://youtu.be/IVCJLiBk_fI

Gomco https://youtu.be/j6Gc2ptTN9M