Bi on the side actually HELPS a marriage and shouldn't be considered cheating

To cheat on a spouse is to deprive them of sexual energy you should reserve for them, assuming they have a sex drive

Cheating on a spouse means you have compromised their financial needs, or if they require your time, or any other element, and you deprive them of it.

If your spouse has no interest in sex and you can find time to have a same sex encounter, I didn't think consider it cheating. It actually HELPS the marriage, as it takes away from tension and bitterness over not having your needs met, or putting someone in a position to have to force himself/herself to do something s/he really doesn't want to do.

Consider the need for food. If you go home and you're hungry, and your wife won't prepare a meal for you, you still have to eat, and can go out and get food somewhere else, whether you pay for it, or someone else cooks you a meal. Now replace the need for food with the need for sex, and it really comes down to the same thing.

I consider 2 buds on the side an extension of what you would do with your own body, just being projected onto another person. So you get together with a buddy for a while and you play with each others cocks, and you go home to your wives. How is that cheating, assuming your wife doesn't want sex when you get home, but you have no energy left for her.

"Well you're lying about where you said you were or who you were with". So be honest. Say you are hanging out with a friend for a while. You actually don't have to lie, while still maintaining respectable confidentiality.

To cheat on a spouse is to have sexual contact with someone behind her back or without her approval.

You can "consider" it whatever you want. That doesn't necessarily make it right.

I consider 2 buds on the side an extension of what you would do with your own body, just being projected onto another person. So you get together with a buddy for a while and you play with each others cocks, and you go home to your wives. How is that cheating, assuming your wife doesn't want sex when you get home, but you have no energy left for her.

How is that different than having an extramarital heterosexual affair? Easier to find a partner? Less likely to fall in love and ruin a marriage?

Anyone can set the bar wherever they want to 'justify' cheating. But having a sexual encounter without your spouse knowing and agreeing to it IS CHEATING. Some go to hand job massage parlors, some go to escorts, some go too Domes for a sexual outlet, some get together with same sex partners - there's no middle ground - you either cheat or you don't.

Anytime someone has a sexual encounter with anyone other than their spouse, without the spouse's knowledge and permission, it is CHEATING!

- there's no middle ground - you either cheat or you don't.

Yep, sums it up. There is a slippery-slope I've found myself in whereby a situation arises whereby I find myself with gal who begins flirting and coming on to me - and being the ever-horny guy, I have to pull back, fearful of opening Pandora's box!

If your spouse doesn’t know and has not given you blanket permission (do what you want, I just never want to know about it) then it is cheating. Period. It is cheating as you’re compromising the honesty of your marriage.

If you think your rationale for having sex with with a bud on the side is sound, have you presented the same argument to your wife as you have to us yet? If not, why?

To me, one of the things that distinguishes a committed intimate relationship is the potential for 100% transparency between both parties. You are cheating. i think you are missing out. You need/want something you are not getting in your marriage, but don't feel safe enough to discuss it with your partner. i think that's pretty common (not cheating, hiding), almost traditional lol. i don't think it's unusual for long term partnered folk to keep thoughts and feelings from their partners.

Before i was married (i was 19), i stood up in church one day and 'confessed' i am attracted to men. i was conditioned by my religion to believe i was "broken" and having sex with a guy would be sinning against "God." I'd prayed and tried to change for 5 years without success, so i "confessed" thinking i needed help. LMAO, no one knew what to do, so they circled around me and prayed... no one brought it up after that. i sure didn't, it took all my courage to bring it up in the first place. my wife to be was present in that meeting.

Two years later, a few weeks after we were married, i opened up to my wife and told her i still "struggled' with being attracted to men. i was extremely naive, but sincerely religious and believed she'd be my helper in my fight against "same sex attraction." Eek, lol, she freaked out (of course), and i realized again that i was alone with this... just me and "God." i learned thirty years later when we were separating that she had gone to our pastor and asked if she should get an annulment. They discussed me and decided i was just confused, but know one spoke to me about it. That was the religious culture i was part of at the time, not really unusual then.

Five years into my marriage, i drove down to a port in LA to help refurbish a missionary hospital ship one weekend. One of the missionaries, "Skip," came on to me that night in our shared berth and i had my first male to male sexual encounter. It was a wordless sex act in the dark. The next morning i wanted to talk about it... i was in love lol. sigh. He had left before i woke and hid from me till i had to leave. When i got home, i told my wife that i am gay and that i wasn't going to change and we needed to separate. i didn't tell her i had cheated, rationalizing what was the point, we were parting. i moved from the west coast to the east. Another guy picked me up a few weeks later while walking on the beach and we spent a week together, i learned a lot about sex with guys. i started falling for him, and he got tired of me about the same time.

my experience was not scientific, but i was guilty and ashamed and still captive to many of the false notions i had about being gay and "God," etc.. i missed my wife and started talking to her again. i told myself that i didn't want 'the gay lifestyle' and convinced her to get back with me. Again, i didn't tell her i had cheated, sincerely believing it was out of my system. "It" wasn't. i got into a pattern of cheating where quick anonymous sex became the only affirmation i had for that part of me (which i didn't understand at the time). i was ashamed and hated myself for cheating and lying. i often cried, begging "God" for help every time i was on my way to cheat, and every time after cheating. It was a tortured existence filled with self loathing.

At one point my wife got sick and i was convinced i had given her AID's. i went to our pastor and told him everything and he told me to tell her too. i did. She "needed" to know everything, and i mean "everything." She insisted i tell her every detail of what i had done, drive her to all the places i had cheated and describe everything. She insisted she needed to know in order to "heal." Who was i to argue? i went through "reparative therapy." i was a wasteland, i had devastated someone i loved... which became especially clear when i told the truth. i was still convinced that being gay is a sickness and sin, so i thought finally i'd have the 'help' to change that i needed.

Of course, it didn't work. i didn't change. It took a lot of processing on my own to understand that my, and the people i loved, ideas about "God" and being gay were... wrong. It was pretty amazing. Once i accepted who i am and went to my wife and told her: "i'm attracted to guys, and that's not going to change," the compulsion (not desire) to have sex with guys left.

my wife wanted to stay together only if i would admit i was "broken" and "repent." i couldn't help her understand that i'd been doing that for most of my life to no avail, and to do so would be a lie. my family doesn't get it, they are still religious and think i am willfully rebellious. i get it, i thought the same thing for most of my life, and i'm the one who's gay.

i reached a point where i would sooner lose everything then lie or cheat again. Wow, freedom and peace. i did lose everything, material, my family... but i got sanity and reality. That's worth it. If you cheat and lie, your life is an illusion.

If the husband is out having sex with another person male or female and your female spouse would not approve, then yes it's cheating. If the husband puts all his cards on the table and says- we are not having sex and I want to explore having sex with guys or other women and asks are you OK with that? If the response from the spouse results in a divorce or a badly injured marriage then so be it, at least you were up front about your outside hookups. But if you want to have these hookups on the downlow and hope you never get caught, then the marriage stays in-tac and life carries on- no divorce and splitting up the assets often leaving both in financial ruin and breaking up families and kids.

Yes sometimes what your spouse doesn't know will in fact be better for all. Call it cheating, which none us are proud of but less harm done to all concerned.

Sometimes there are no good choices.

Yes sometimes what your spouse doesn't know will in fact be better for all. Call it cheating, which none us are proud of but less harm done to all concerned.

Sometimes there are no good choices.

Some try to rationalize their reasons for cheating as not really cheating due to the deficiencies in their marriage. If you decide to have sex outside the marriage don’t try to whitewash it. Admit it and accept responsibility for the possible consequences.

@prov1 I agree with you.

It takes a lot of courage but if you are at a point in a marriage where you do put all your cards on the table and admit to sex outside the marriage then you have to be ready for the worst outcome- divorce. You may be at a point in the marriage where you are ready to call it quits so if that happens you are better off and happy with the outcome. It's those cases when coming clean or getting caught creates harm to all involved that makes it a high stakes proposition to be engage in sex outside the marriage.

The best case scenario is that you ask for permission from the spouse and its granted or maybe you basically renegotiate the terms of the marriage. Maybe both want an open marriage and at least the marriage stays in-tac legally. That maybe the best outcome but it would take two level headed people to navigate to that new place in their marriage and in the end it still may fall apart.

Some try to rationalize their reasons for cheating as not really cheating due to the deficiencies in their marriage. If you decide to have sex outside the marriage don’t try to whitewash it. Admit it and accept responsibility for the possible consequences.

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This is not bringing religion into the debate, at least not to my thinking, since what I am trying to explain tends more to refer to social mores and customs.

There often does seem to be a difference in thinking on this matter. I believe it is related to the practice of confession. For Catholics this is a private matter, done in private in a booth to a single individual who then conveys forgiveness. To Protestant denominations, this is often done in a group setting, so all and sundry in a congregation can hear the transgressor's 'sins'.

This way of approaching transgressions (both religious and social) carries over into everyday life and can effect the general ideas about what is morally right or wrong even on a national level. That is why one often finds reasoning in countries like France or Italy, that some things, like sex on the side, are best not mentioned in a marriage as long as they cause no obvious damage. It is a sort of live and let live philosophy, a way of giving people private space that doesn't directly impact on a marriage.

In a country like the US, the advice is usually to be brutally honest and upfront about such matters in a marriage and let the chips fall where they may, even though the situation may be causing no observable harm. Upfront honesty and confession is seen as the best way no matter what.

Different approaches to a marital conundrum/problem.

For what it is worth, I think that talking about and confessing to every little or large sexual quirk or idiosyncrasy or transgression is a recipe that will inevitably lead to break-ups and lots of sad and hard feelings between spouses. Compartmentalising is often a pragmatic way of conducting one's (sexual) life.

Another way of looking at it is, if the wife is no longer interested in sex, isn't the husband then being "cheated out of" sex ?

Another way of looking at it is, if the wife is no longer interested in sex, isn't the husband then being "cheated out of" sex ?

That is a stretch --- so you are the victim???

I’ve dealt with someone who played these types of games with semantics:

.....- why else would you be hiding it from you wife and why would you be asking this forum for supportive reassurance?

Agree with @Quintana - I don't think you'll get a lot of support for trying to justify cheating as being "helpful to a marriage". If you gotta do it - then do it and accept it for what is is.

Another way of looking at it is, if the wife is no longer interested in sex, isn't the husband then being "cheated out of" sex ?

Let’s accept this premise for the sake of argument. OK. The wife has changed the rules of the game. She’s said no more sex. You now have a choice, live without sex or seek it elsewhere. If you choose the latter you have a duty to tell her. You’re lying to her otherwise. Period. No other excuses. If you choose to do that you’re in the wrong. Period. No justifications. Own it and accept the consequences when you’re caught.

Let’s accept this premise for the sake of argument. OK. The wife has changed the rules of the game. She’s said no more sex. You now have a choice, live without sex or seek it elsewhere. If you choose the latter you have a duty to tell her. You’re lying to her otherwise. Period. No other excuses. If you choose to do that you’re in the wrong. Period. No justifications. Own it and accept the consequences when you’re caught.

Agree with everything @NursePhillips says with one exception. There's another choice - talk to your wife, get help, fix the problem. Granted not all problems will get fixed - but not trying to fix it puts as much responsibility on the guy as the woman. Just approaching your wife for sex and getting rejected is NOT trying to fix the problem. It takes work.

Curious why the claim that a same sex affair would be better than an opposite sex affair.

Curious why the claim that a same sex affair would be better than an opposite sex affair.

It’s an interesting question. My husband has said he’d more likely be open to sharing me with a woman than another man. When I asked why his response was that she would be providing something that he couldn’t due to physical differences which I guess makes some kind of sense. I don’t feel the same way though, if I suddenly found out my husband was bi I wouldn’t be happy and I’d be more open to sharing him with a woman than I would a man.

I believe the difference is he’s always known I am at least somewhat bisexual whereas I’ve always know him to have no interest in men sexually. Should that suddenly change it would completely change my view of who he is.

Again, key factor here is honesty.

You may not consider it cheating.

But your spouse and her attorney may have a different opinion....

Another way of looking at it is, if the wife is no longer interested in sex, isn't the husband then being "cheated out of" sex ?

That is a stretch --- so you are the victim???

I’ve dealt with someone who played these types of games with semantics:.....- why else would you be hiding it from you wife and why would you be asking this forum for supportive reassurance?,

If one spouse doesn't want sex, that person is effectlvely OUT of the other spouse's sex life. In that situation, what the other spouse does to have sexual fulfillment is none of the other spouse's business.

In cases where one spouse denies sex to the other, the one going outside the marriage is NOT cheating. It would be different if both spouses wanted sex and the one going outside the marriage denied sex to the other, but that's not what is happening here.

It is NOT semantics, and YES, the husband in the above scenario IS CHEATED OUT OF HAVING SEX, and while I hate using the word "victim" the husband is a victim.

ONE MORE THING that very few people understand. Cheating is NOT something you to TO someone. The statement (usually made by the wife) "how could you do this to me" is patently ridiculous. Cheating is something you do FOR yourself.

You may not consider it cheating.

But your spouse and her attorney may have a different opinion....

Or his attorney. It happens both ways.

The statement (usually made by the wife) "how could you do this to me" is patently ridiculous. Cheating is something you do FOR yourself.

I cannot stand hearing that line in movies or shows. Sounds so fake and self-centered.

However, in the days/centuries before ours, a spouse's marital escapades were usually known to all and sundry and finding sex outside of a marriage could be considered a reflection on a spouse's inability to satisfy the other or because of some other defect. This shortcoming was therefore sometimes cause for a loss of social standing, depending on the marital paradigm of the moment.

I'm curious...how does someone just "not like sex"? How do they decide they don't like sex with their husband? Is it something he is doing, or not doing? Is he too rough, not rough enough, not enough foreplay, not kinky enough, too kinky...??

Is it, "doesn't like sex" or, "can't have sex"? Is it physical or mental or both? Is it being done in a passive-aggressive way to punish for other things?

Not every person will turn others on. Sometimes, it's one little aspect about them, or sometimes, it's everything. I suppose after years of marriage, and people do change, someone could decide they don't want to be intimate with someone anymore. In that case, if they are unwilling to give a handjob, use a toy, whatever...to accommodate the spouse, then why would they say the other person can't "find it" elsewhere? One person shouldn't have that kind of control over another. Yeah, it's cheating, but if the one partner is being unreasonable (this means there isn't a physical thing they have no control over), why should they dictate everything?

I'm curious...how does someone just "not like sex"?

Talking personal here, but I know my (somewhat younger) sister is like that. How it came about I cannot definitively say, but a germ and dirt phobia certainly played a big part. She was one of those people who could never shower enough or wash hands and clothes and whatever else enough. She'd make denigrating remarks about how dirty people were, what slobs, berate us in the family for doing something she considered unhygienic at the dinner table and so on.

And when I had a girlfriend she would often make denigrating remarks about anything sexual. She'd never say this in so many direct words, but any kind of bodily fluid was ever so gross for her.

And she also had this thing for virginity, especially saints and nuns. Absolutely fascinated by it all, often to a mystical degree which also manifested itself in a strident belief in homeopathy and all kinds of (pure and ethereal) spiritual healing and practices, anything that transcended the base and vile body we are condemned to inhabit.

She'd make fun of people who displayed affection or were of a different sexual persuasion. Marital hetero sex was enough to disgust her, her opinions on gay sex were definitely not with the times. I am guessing because of all that dirty, wet, germ-filled, messy penetrating of bodily orifices. So just imagine how revolting anal sex must have been to her.

You may not consider it cheating.

But your spouse and her attorney may have a different opinion....

Not having sex is constructive abandonment,

I'm curious...how does someone just "not like sex"?. . . . .

That's a VERY good question.

I knew I liked playing with that part of my body, rubbing myself and and sticking my fingers inside my vagina since I was three.

Didn't the not-so-intelligent fairy-tale designer put more than enough neurons there to ensure sexual activity and reproduction would take place?!?!? The problems lie with the person who doesn't want to do it.

Let’s not overlook the rapid decline in female hormones in her early fifties, aka menopause, perhaps brought on more suddenly by surgical removal of the ovaries for medical reasons. The male’s testosterone declines more gradually. Charlie Chaplin fathered his last child aged 73, his wife being half that age. Viagra etc may restore flagging male performance in a way not available to women. And the woman may be older too, making this loss of drive even earlier relative to the man.

Beyond the contentiousness of whether the person looking elsewhere is cheating, albeit politely ignored in some societies as stated, or whether the person who has (often for medical reasons) simply lost all interest in sex is to blame, this topic of what is tolerable within a sexually imbalanced marriage/relationship (irrelevant I think whether a Bi or Hetero affair) is worthy of discussion as it may come to many later if not sooner.

@BulgeInPants said

Let’s not overlook the rapid decline in female hormones in her early fifties, aka menopause, perhaps brought on more suddenly by surgical removal of the ovaries for medical reasons. . . . .

That still doesn't excuse the person who doesn't want sex from the BLAME or RESPONSIBILITY for causing the problem of a sexless or reduced sex marriage.

To keep the spouse happy, as I have said before, the wife (it's usually the wife, so bear with me) should just get some lube and spread her legs for five or ten minutes once in a while. She might actually like it once she gets into it.

Let’s not overlook the rapid decline in female hormones in her early fifties, aka menopause...

I think it's a myth that all women lose their sex drive after menopause. Granted, no one is as sexually active as when they were 21. But I think a lot of men just assign the reason of "menopause" to their wives not wanting sex with them. There are other things besides intercourse, if that is painful.

I think it's a myth that all women lose their sex drive after menopause. Granted, no one is as sexually active as when they were 21. But I think a lot of men just assign the reason of "menopause" to their wives not wanting sex with them. There are other things besides intercourse, if that is painful.

#1--Using my mother as a gauge for when menopause will happen to me, I still have five years to go.

#2--I'm not quite as active as when I was 21, but we still throw each other around the bed pretty well.

I consider 2 buds on the side an extension of what you would do with your own body, just being projected onto another person.

For those who have said in this discussion, that they believe Bi on the side IS considered cheating, I have a question for you folks.

Consider the statement from my original theory above. By that rationale if you consider it to be cheating, would you also consider the person's own masturbational activities to be cheating as well ?

My guess is that there are folks who say it would be, perhaps based on religious beliefs, or any other beliefs.

Is there really a difference between my hand jacking my cock, and someone else's hand jacking my cock ?

Is there really a difference between my hand jacking my cock and someone else's cock?

What's the REAL harm, if any?