What's with the "Clayton enema" and how safe is it?

The "Clayton enema" has been brought up several times here. If you haven't seen it it's a bisacodyl plus soapsuds high volume enema that had a patent issued a while ago (US patent 4403982). Out of interest I looked at the patent, and I'm curious how much of it is true, how much is "patent hyperbole" (I'm such a great inventor, no one else thought of anything like this ever before, it works wonders...), and how much is Clayton just not knowing much.

Anyway, for the Clayton enema you mix soap and bisacodyl in a high volume enema (2-3 liters) and give it, officially using his inflatable nozzle and patent "cheek squeezer" (seriously...) Other things...

- he doesn't seem to know what soap is for (he claims either the soap or bisacodyl is "more nearly isotonic" and discusses the soap functioning primarily as a lubricant)

-his conception of hydraulics is either lacking or he doesn't understand that the anus can close off the intestine. According to his arguments an enema without the retention nozzle can't rise higher in the colon than the level of the anus. Hmm.

-He claims to have invented the idea of using multiple positions for an enema, which has been done since at least the '60s.

-he claims to have invented the idea of adding a laxative to an enema. Barring the question of what the soap does, there seem to be plenty of cases of laxatives added to large enemas.

The solution proportions seem OK if a bit to the strong side (10-15mL of soap per L of water and 6-15 mg of bisacodyl per liter for a 2-3 liter enema), but I'd be interested in hearing from those who know and those who have tried it - Safety? How effective is it? How long should it be held (I imagine 15-20 mins for the bisacodyl to kick in)? How often is it safe to give this enema (weekly, monthly)? Will it be "in, out and done" or are there lingering after effects and return trips to the toilet for hours?

I ask because if it is effective, fast and safe I might put it on my personal menu of options for dealing with my colon when it's being obstinate.

All a patent needs is a set of "claims" and a series of diagrams or desriptions showing what the material or device is. You used to need a working model but you don't need a working model anymore except for one specific invention. You must have a working model for a perpetual motion machine to prove it works and have a valid patent. A patent on an enema, I quite frankly find to be ridiculous since the Clayton enema is just a mixture of ingredients that have been available for decades.

10-15 ml soap per liter is NOT strong and neither is 6-15 mg bisacodyl per liter of solution. The solution sounds perfectly safe and reasonably effective.

Maybe I should have patented my Susie's Very Rough Ride Enema and made MILLIONS of dollars from it. 😁 😁 😁

I think I might try it then, since it has the Susie seal of approval for probably not killing you or messing you up too much.

I guess I'd better try it some day when I don't need to leave for work or something else, just in case it's one of those diligent enemas that keep on working for a couple of hours. I also imagine it's probably a "not more than twice a month" enema.

The patent really is a laugh, though, because he doesn't seem to know much about what he's talking about. That's what raised the red flags for "I probably should check out the proportions just in case..."

He probably didn't make much. It's highly unlikely that it would have held up in court, except possibly for the adhesive cheek squeezer.

Sounds like the old Clysodrast enemas that were used prior to BaE's. It was withdrawn from the market, cause it had tannic acid in it, plus bisacodyl. The tannic acid was determined to be a carcinogen. I've made bisacodyl and tap water enemas and they work VERY well. 4, 10 mg. bisacodyl tabs dissolved in a shot glass with a little bicarb. I shoot in the bisacodyl in 8 oz. of water then follow with 2 qts. of tap water to push it up high in the colon. Don't need any soap. Hold it for about 8-10 min. and I get a strong expulsion. You can also use "Magic Bullet" suppose, cause they are water soluble. Dulcolax suppose are only fat soluble and won't dissolve fast

Hmmm....the guy sounds like an idiot! Sis and I always start our sessions by taking 4-6 bisacodyl tabs. Never tried dissolving them in our first SSE, though. We managed a three hour session when they came here for the 4th. Wish I had seen this thread first! We'll be heading to their place for Labor Day, and I intend to add it to our first enema. Anyone tried it yet? How about cramps? We start our session by inserting two bisacodyl suppositories; this sounds like a great way to increase the power of that first enema!

I can probably let you know about this in a day or two. This past month has not been good, and it doesn't look like things are going to start working again anytime soon. If so then my next enema will be tomorrow, and I can mix up a "BS" (Bisacodyl and Soapsuds) and see how it works. I resist calling it a "Clayton" because of all the other nonsense in the patent, and I'm not going to be messing with a cheek squeezer (though I guess that could have some fetish appeal).

Whaddaya think for retention time? Should it be held for 15 minutes or let it out when the urge hits?

10-15 min is always good

With the bisacodyl, you should hold it until you feel like you will explode and then have an extremely intense expulsion.

15-30 minutes minimum. Enjoy the gurgling in your gut.

Use a double balloon to hold it in.

I just talked with my nurse e-mate, and she wants to try it. We're going to use the slow day after 4th 0f July to go to lunch and forget to return to work. I'll let you know how it goes. We're both longtime klismos, who use bisacodyl tablets and suppositories, so our systems are quite accustomed to the laxative. It will be interesting to see how different it is as an enema with soap. I'll report volumes, time of holding, strength of cramps, and quality/quantity of results. Anyone else want to try it and make a report?

As I said I'm going to take one tomorrow unless things magically fix themselves in my colon, which based on how my stomach is feeling right now I think that's very unlikely.

The "official" dose appears to be 20cc of castile soap for up to 2 liters of water, combined with from 10 to 45 mg of bisacodyl, with 10-20mg suggested as "usual". This is taken in an enema of 2-3 liters of water, and if you're following his directions you take it lying on your right side and then roll back and forth. I think I'd take it starting on the left, then moving to knee-chest and right side, then following Susie's retention recommendations of 15-30 minutes.

I'll probably start with 2 quarts, 20cc of soap and 20-25mg of bisacodyl. I'm backed up and want the shit out, but 45mg sounds like you'd be glued to the toilet for a while.

I'll let you know how well this does in the "knock the crap out" department. I'm a bit pissed at my colon just now and so a "no more Mr. Nice Guy" enema is fine and dandy.

As promised, my nurse friend Sonya and I enjoyed a "liquid lunch". She keeps Fleet bisacodyl disposables for patients, and we mixed two into a 3 qt pitcher,then swirled Ivory soap until the water was very milky. She has a bedroom with two twin beds, for visits from her grandkids. They have rubber sheets, so they're perfect for enemas for two. She hung our bags on an IV pole, and placed it between the beds. After installing barium nozzles in each other, we laid down and opened our clamps. It took about five minutes to drain our bags, and we laid there with the nozzles in us as long as we could. We both started cramping after about 5 minutes, and were only able to hold for about 12 minutes, before having explosive releases. (Fortunately, she has a master & a guest bathroom, but the hustle down the hall was scary!) We both enjoyed the solution, and it DEFINITELY left us clean!

So you did 3 quarts each? First enema? I'm still thinking about starting with 2 because there's quite a bit of stuff in my colon already.

20mg of bisacodyl per person, I'm assuming.

After installing barium nozzles in each other,

Are these those mini EZ-EM inflatables, or are these the "large green plastic flex tips"?

I'm probably going to use my Model S. I do have a double balloon, but it has been moved to storage and I'm not going to go get it.

We both started cramping after about 5 minutes, and were only able to hold for about 12 minutes, before having explosive releases. ... We both enjoyed the solution, and it DEFINITELY left us clean!

Sounds like just what I need. I'll let everybody know how it went on me tomorrow. Any lingering after effects?

I have tried the "clayton enema" 3 times, the last time with 40 mg. bisacodyl (the tabs with baking soda method) and 1 tbs. castile soap, 2 qt. water. held for 12 minutes after all in, not a big deal, no cramps, actually not much of anything. it felt like a typical soap enema, but bisacodyl does not seem to have much effect on me. i am going to try this same formulation again, but will retain for at least 20 minutes after all in, might be i'm not waiting long enough for the bisacodyl to kick in.

One "Clayton" bisacodyl and soapsuds enema in, out, and I'm feeling great.

ingredients:

25mg bisacodyl, done by soaking Walmart generic tablets overnight in some water with baking soda and soap

45mL soap goo (should be close to 20mL castile)

2.5 quarts water.

Took it using multiple positions (left Sims, knee-chest, right side-lying), with approximate amounts of 1 quart in Sims, 1 quart in knee-chest, and 1/2 quart on the right side.

I did start feeling things working after 5 minutes. Held it somewhere between 10 and 15, then had a very satisfactory and strong expulsion. Most of the water came out in 5 minutes, along with the other contents of my colon. Somewhere between 5-10 minutes later there was a second strong expulsion that brought more out - I don't know if it was the cecum/ascending colon or just solution that had pooled in my transverse (I have quite the sag). After that the activity slowed down.

More out of habit than anything I took a second enema, and while not clear there was much less stuff in it than I usually have. I could probably get away with just doing the one bisacodyl and soapsuds

Verdict: A good enema. Fast, positive action and it doesn't ruin the rest of your day. You will want to have a toilet handy and strongly consider using something to help hold it in. Having seen Susie's recommendation as well as Mu5hr00m's comment about using a barium tip I pulled out a buttplug, and was glad I did. Towards the end I was standing at the toilet with my legs and buttcheeks squeezed together just in case. The cramping was not too intense, and there were only small "peaks" of about 10-20 seconds every minute or two after 8 minutes where I was worried about loosing my grip, but this isn't the sort of enema you can genteelly retain while lying down and engaging in light conversation. No nausea.

I'm going to put this one on the "bowel menu" for days when I'm backed up and want something that works fast and well. I'll probably try it with a bit less soap and bisacodyl next time, but even at this strength while attention grabbing it was well worth it.

Stronger and larger, say 30-45 mg bisacodyl and 3 quarts, hmm. I have visions of my wife standing over my restrained body as it works inside me, held there by a tightly pumped double balloon nozzle. I don't know if I would like it in reality, but I'd certainly be willing to try. I think I've been reading too many of Susie's posts to stay a socially acceptable shade of vanilla in my fantasies.

Regarding the tablets - I'm starting to wonder about those as well. They definitely made their presence felt in this enema much more than they did in the earlier, smaller one I took with a similar amount of bisacodyl. Indeed that should have been more intense because the bisacodyl was in a smaller area of the colon, right?

I'm starting to think that the bisacodyl in the Fleet enemas and Magic Bullet suppositories is more available, so a lesser amount works more strongly and faster. The big difference between this enema and the last small (4-6 oz) homemade bisacodyl enema I tried (other than volume and soap) was that in this enema I soaked the tablets overnight vs an hour or two before, which might make the bisacodyl more available. I guess if I am really going to use this formula I should probably get some Magic Bullets, but I'm wondering if I'll really get through 50 or 100 before they expire.

Get the magic bullets. They only expire on the label. The suppository remains active well into the next century.

Miss Susan, can you tell us how long it takes a Magic Bullet to activate when taken before the enema? I know that Dulcolax suppose. are oil soluble and would take a long time to "hit", but Magic Bullets are water soluble and should be activated by the enema water

I was thinking just toss them in the solution - they're supposed to dissolve fast. I guess you could insert them before the enema as well.

I don't use the magic bulletts as suppositories. I always dissolve them in hot water and chill them down for use in the enema and everyone is different for how long it takes to work. It could be anywhere from 15-over 60 minutes.

I have dissolved 2-3 (20-30 mg) sups in 4 ounces hot water, let cool and it takes me about 20 minutes to kick in.

It's been most of the day and I'm still impressed. Quick action, strong expulsion, it seems to have gotten pretty much everything out, and then my gut calmed down and went back to normal. I had no return visits to the toilet later in the day and very little post-enema cramping, and that probably was just my grumpy bowels being themselves.

Definitely putting this one on the personal menu.

Susie- I think I might go for the Magic Bullets, then. Definitely faster than putting the tabs in overnight. Now I just need to figure out where the best place to get them from is. Where do you get yours? Re: expiration - I always figured bisacodyl expired pretty fast - I guess that is a remnant of my parents telling me "don't worry, it's an old suppository and it won't cramp/hurt like the new ones. It'll just help you a little."

Bisacodyl is very stable, in a light proof bottle away from moisture, it will stay active for many years. amazon seems to have reasonable pricing on "magic bullets". it is more expensive in the magic bullet form than tablets or vegetable oil suppositories.

The clayton enema, bisacodyl and soap, has a lot going for it. the formulation i have settled on is 40 mg. of bisacodyl and 2 tsp of dr. bronners peppermint castile soap in 2 qt. water. retain for @ least 16-18 minutes, to let the bisacodyl kick in. people have different reaction times to rectally administrated bisacodyl, some very quick, e.g. 5 minutes, others--like me-- a lot longer, e.g. 15-20 minutes. another thing that is good about this enema is how fast it is gone, maybe 10 minutes, and that's it, no after effects or return trips. I use a double balloon catheter to be safe.

I'd be a little worried that 40mg of bisacodyl would leave things pretty worked up for a while, even spread throughout the colon in a 2 quart enema.

I do like the speed - expulsion is fast and it seemed to be pretty continuous, with no return trips. I probably didn't even need the rinse.

I still wonder about "safe" frequency of use. I have heard that bisacodyl has fewer of the long term effects than other stimulant laxatives and it is approved for long-term management of chronic constipation. I have also heard that with IBS your bowel is messed up anyway, so do what you need to to feel better. On the flip side, there's still the "don't overuse laxatives" recommendation.

If you hold it for 20-30 minutes (you'll need a double balloon) the 40 mg bisacodyl will cause expulsion fairly quickly after you deflate the balloon, but even after you are empty, you will still feel the urge to push.

That is true, 20 minutes is a challenge, 30 minutes would be extreme. also, i cut back on the castile soap, castile soap is tough to hold @ anything more than 1 tbls per 2 quarts.

The "clayton enema" is a really good enema, especially when using the moliere method of dispersing bisacodly tabs with dr. Bronner's peppermint soap. I still use a little bit of baking soda to help break up the tabs. The fine particle bisacodyl that results from this prep is very active, start with only 2 or 3 tabs with 1 tbls of soap in 2 quarts. You will need to get the enema administered in 5 minutes or less, because the bisacodly will start to kick in, and the urges get stronger and stronger. I always use a double balloon rectal catheter, if you don't, be careful to avoid an accident. This enema does a good job in cleaning the large intestine, when you take tap water rinse enema after the clayton, the returns are reasonably clear.

Didn't know I was using a "Clayton" enema. 40 mg bisacodyl (from 4 melted Dulcolax suppos) 4 qts. water and 2 Tbsp (1 oz.) of Dr. B's peppermint delight. Hold til it feels as if you may erupt like Vesuvius; remove the double balloon cath ONLY when sitting on the toilet. It works!

Didn't know I was using a "Clayton" enema. 40 mg bisacodyl (from 4 melted Dulcolax suppos) 4 qts. water and 2 Tbsp (1 oz.) of Dr. B's peppermint delight. Hold til it feels as if you may erupt like Vesuvius; remove the double balloon cath ONLY when sitting on the toilet. It works!

So about how long in minutes are you usually able to hold this before you go volcanic?

I had a Clayton enema as part of the prep for barium enema in the early 1980's. As instructed, I had taken a dose of senna laxative 18 hours prior to the enema. It worked very effectively in about 12 hours. The Clayton enema was part of an outpatient procedure. It was given from a plastic bag which held slightly more than the usual 2 quart enema. The solution was a mixture of Castile soap and bisacodyl ( my first experience with biscodyl in an enema). The balloon on the end of the hose was something new. It was not that large and I don't remember really feeling it pressing against my rectal walls. The enema was warm and given slowly.. Took maybe ten minutes. I do not remember cramps or anything except an increasing feeling of fullness.I was quite empty anyway from the laxative the night before. I cannot recall now whether i was required to hold the enema for a definite amount of time or allowed to expel it immediately after I had taken all of the solution. I walked to the bathroom with the tube and balloon still in my rectum and the balloon was deflated and removed only after I was over the commode. I do not remember any serious cramping from the enema; only that it seemed to come out of me easily. I felt very empty when I finished. The Clayton kit was used to give me a water enema after the barium enema. Then the kit was given to me..."to keep in case Iyou ever have another similar procedure." I didn't ever have another hospital procedure, but I used the bag and hose or a number of years until the balloon would no longer hold air.

15-20 mins

I had some good experiences with this one, but today I had a bad experience. I think this is directly connected to the IBS, so it may not be applicable to others.

Before I had used this enema when things were really not working. Today I was coming off of a period of things kind of working. Actually I had been getting loose stools and some cramping, and I was a little worried that I might be changing to the alternating form from straight constipation. Anyway, this past couple of days things seemed to be going back to "normal," and since I have a big meeting today and I had a bottle of dissolved bisacodyl that had been sitting around for a couple of weeks I figured what the hell - hit it hard.

Big mistake. Nasty time. 20 mg bisacodyl and I had strong, unproductive cramps and some nausea. Felt like my gut was rebelling and cramping all over the place, but not organized enough to expel the enema well. 30-40 minutes later it still wasn't all out, and my bowel was not willing to consider a rinse (tried a couple of times, got a cup or so in).

I did do this one a little different - I mixed up the bisacodyl/Bronners peppermint "ready mix" (about 1/2tsp soap) with water in an old Fleet's bottle, squirted that in, waited a couple of minutes, then put 2 quarts of soapsuds in on top of that, plugged myself, and waited. Didn't make it to 15, only held out to 10.

I don't know how much was the IBS or if some (or any) was from the different administration, but it was not fun.

On the plus side it was effective once I got it all out. I don't know for certain, but I doubt there's much left in my colon now.

Edit - just checked the scale, the enema was very effective in clearing me out, and after about an hour my gut settled down.