Submission as an 'excuse'

Obviously everyone has their own myriad reasons to want to be in a certain role in a scene. However, I think one of these reasons may be a sort of protective mechanism for some folks, an excuse. So, has anyone ever heard of this or felt this way?

To give an example, imagine someone who loves nonconsent, bondage, and let's say giving head as well. But she really, really prefers to be tied up, in part because she can 'blame' whatever sexy stuff ensues on the person who tired her up in the first place. Maybe she was raised to believe enjoying sex was a Big Bad Thing, and it stuck but she isn't asexual, so she feels she needs a reason up have sex, and 'I want to' will not cut it. Maybe she values her independence and doesn't like admitting that she likes to submit--thinking this might make her seem 'weak'. Whatever adverse event caused it, the thinking would go, "I don't want to do this because (reasons). But this Dom sort of handcuffed me to a bed... So my hands are kinda tied. Lit'rally! Welp, no need to feel guilty for enjoying this then, it's not my fault anymore".

Obviously this is not the healthiest perspective to have on D/s but I'm more interested in whether it's a popular one. Humans like coping mechanisms and we like endorphins, I'm sure the two have intersected this way before. If you have run onto this line of thinking, what if anything was the context and response to it?

Well, if you look into the psychological explanations why someone wants to be a sub, there really are lots of individual answers. But I have indeed heard people say they were raised with sex being a big no-no, so it's easier to allow pleasure when someone else is 100% responsible for it. This works especially in medfet - getting undressed and opening your legs is ok if it happens for medical reasons, nothing "immoral" about getting examined by a doctor. (Other reasons why someone likes medfet are of course available)

Giving up responsibility in general seems to be a big thing. Top CEOs see a dominatrix in their free time because they have to be the boss all day long and need a break from that. And women say "you're in charge, tie me to the bed and do what you want, I don't want to have to make decisions, come up with ideas etc., I feel total relief when I'm not responsible."

Maybe it is a form of egotism, too - if your tied down you're excused for being lazy, your partner has to do all the "work"....

Have you read Nancy Friday's book on women's sexual fantasies? There are three volumes (I think), a huge collection of hundreds of quite explicit fantasies. Highly informative, a great read.

I haven't read those, I'll have to look them up. Really I'm pretty new at this game despite a long history of interest, so it's a case of research, what research? Thanks for the recommendation.

I didn't consider some of the other excuses, those are good points though! Lower stakes, less binary stuff than 'is it okay for me to feel like this'... those are all interesting. For some reason I really stuck on the one where the sub didn't have to come up with anything--it's different from the others but I can so remember feeling like that in an irc scenario. Or two. Or a lot. My strategy was usually to work within the context (nearly always nonconsent), work with the stereotypes and lay it on thick. Generally got me through, but IRL I'm not sure it'd work as well. I wonder if doms get that problem? Or do they plan ahead so it doesn't happen? Hm.

I had read somewhere (can't currently recall where) that Winston Churchill felt the same way and had a need to be dominated from time to time. Something about being led around naked on a dog leash or the like. He certainly had a lot of crucial decisions to make so maybe this is applicable in that case. The only other thing that popped into my mind is, to paraphrase Forrest Gump, Submissive is as submissive does.

I used to associate humiliation with love, I know it sounds wrong but I was abused as a teenager and even though I felt something was wrong. He also made me feel loved. I was brought up to be seen not heard. During adult conversation I was to keep my opinion to myself. Yet the boyfriend of my grand mother was the only adult wanting to hear what I had to say. In my 12 year old mind this meant love and so he won my trust, then started exposing himself to me and eventually sexual abuse me, fortunatly he never progressed to raping me but I am sure if I had not had the courage to say anything to my cousin, he would have.

I think for a long time, the way I dealt with these feelings and the way I proccessed what happened to me was by over eating and wanting to be humiliated.

So yes in my case my submission was an excuse of sorts

For me I knew I was submissive at a very early age. I was active in the lifestyle starting in my early twenties. It just something I've known so training me was /is not a hard thing as sub comes natural to me. I think what a lot of "doms" don't understand is that it takes time to build a trust and a relationship. There a lot of people that call themselves dominant when in fact they are abusive and don't understand the aftercare that is required after scenes , especially heavy ones. I have also come to find that dominants and submissives gravitate towards one another it's as if we can sense it. I haven't been active in the lifestyle for a few years as my relationship ended and I haven't found anyone suitable to play with in real life. For me it is also a lifestyle not just a bedroom kink. I don't know if this is helping the original poster but I hope it sheds some light on things. I have many interests and I am very guarded so my profile doesn't list a lot of info and I certainly don't list all of my kinks or some other info. Submissives need to be careful and safe and for me this is how I protect myself and still enjoy the site. I will seek out my interest or if someone seeks me and I'm interested I will start up a dialogue. There is no other better site in my opinion to get to know people and their lifestyles then right here. Take care?

ImprovSub said

Obviously everyone has their own myriad reasons to want to be in a certain role in a scene. However, I think one of these reasons may be a sort of protective mechanism for some folks, an excuse. So, has anyone ever heard of this or felt this way?

To give an example,[color=#000000][b] imagine someone who loves nonconsent, bondage, and let's say giving head as well. But she really, really prefers to be tied up, in part because she can 'blame' whatever sexy stuff ensues on the person who tired her up in the first place.[/b] [/color]Maybe she was raised to believe enjoying sex was a Big Bad Thing, and it stuck but she isn't asexual, so she feels she needs a reason up have sex, and 'I want to' will not cut it. [color=#000000][b]Maybe she values her independence and doesn't like admitting that she likes to submit--thinking this might make her seem 'weak'. Whatever adverse event caused it, the thinking would go, "I don't want to do this because (reasons). But this Dom sort of handcuffed me to a bed... So my hands are kinda tied. Lit'rally! Welp, no need to feel guilty for enjoying this then, it's not my fault anymore".[/b][/color]

Obviously this is not the healthiest perspective to have on D/s but I'm more interested in whether it's a popular one. Humans like coping mechanisms and we like endorphins, I'm sure the two have intersected this way before. If you have run onto this line of thinking, what if anything was the context and response to it?

Consensual non-consent scenes are a real rush to participate in except for the "victim" when it is a GENUINE consensual non-consent scene.

See this post I made a few years ago about a consensual non-consent scene my husband and I did with a couple we are friends with.

It lasted for about 24 hours and it didn't work out so well. See why.

http://www.zity.biz/index.php?mx=forum;ox=display;msg=326147

Well yes, I can relate. I sometimes think if I want to lose control because in my childhood, nobody really cared, I never got punished and my parents were mostly busy with themselves to notice what's going on with their kids. I used to play with my cousin and I hate to admit it, he even touched me, I don't remember much cos we were really young, just that it was something naughty. Now we don't talk about it but the point is that I was so independent that now I don't want it anymore, I want to be taken care of, dominated and all that.

Now that's not the only thing, what I wrote above is what I sometimes 'think', what I know is that submission is a part of me. No normal person likes their wrists to be marked with cuff marks, do they? Or they don't 'want' to feel pain, normal people would consider it crazy if someone tells them to kneel, but I don't.

The AB part of me is what I associate more with my childhood, not the submissive part. But when it comes to sexual stuff, BDSM turns me on more.

In regards to what submissivelee said" I have also come to find that dominants and submissives gravitate towards one another it's as if we can sense it." I know the exact feeling you are talking about. I can tell when I am talking to a "natural" Dom online. It isn't anything they say or do, it is just a feeling that comes over me and personally I feel myself slipping into submission without even realizing it. It is those Doms that I want to get to know more and see if things click. I have also had Doms tell me that they can fell my submission on the phone and online.

Submission is absolutely an excuse for me.

I can top very well, but I loathe it. I'm in command all day at work. I don't want that in my pleasure, too.

I let myself use submissiveness as an excuse to not deal with the responsibility (that's not the right word, but I can't think of the best one right now) of controlling myself and someone else.

When my best friend and I play, I drop every ounce of my "domineering" personality and let him have control of my emotions for a bit.

It's also a solid refresher for myself.

Since he and I started playing, quite a few people at work have told me I'm not as much of a "maniacal bitch."

It does not surprise me because my wife does that alot...

One who is dominant in ordinary life often craves the submission to which he was fearfully subjected in his youth. This was confirmed to me by a nurse dominatrix who acknowledged my normally dominant personality in conversation after satisfying my fetish of reliving the painful humiliation I most feared in my youth - pulling down pants and bending over the lap of a beautiful receptionist for her to watch me get injections in my vulnerable bare bottom.

Read through these posts with fascination. I see some similarities and differences with how I feel.

First off, to the OP I don't need an "excuse" so as far as that goes, I would say for me the answer is no.

What I do see that is similar to what I feel is the theme of needing to be dominate in "real life" and submitting as a means to escape or take a break from the pressures and realities of my day to day responsibilities. At work I am a manager. Now I know there are people who may not like their managers or think they are overbearing ogres, but the truth for me is that my employees seem to want to be micromanaged. Its almost like they get nervous if given too much discretion.

Anyway, all that stress on me makes me want to submit to someone just to escape. Ideally, it would be a consensual/non-consensual situation but as others have said, there really is no such thing and we can only emulate a non-consensual situation.

I have found, in my experiences as a dominant, that most of the submissives I have encountered had jobs that required a lot of responsibility, and a lot of having to tell people what to do. I think everyone has to also nurture their submissive side, and let someone else control them. Having said this, it is really important, though, for a submissive person to be very careful with whom they convey this trust to. I always tell a submissive who wants me to dominate them: If you don't TRUST the dominant, DO NOT put yourself in a position that you feel uncomfortable with.

For the past few years I have been having meetings with a man who wants to be a submissive "patient" to a stern and dominant "doctor", which is a role which comes very easily for me. The problem arises, unfortunately, that he wants to constantly tell me what he wants done. Occasionally I will go along with his wishes, and try something he suggests. Recently, though, I tried to explain to him that as long as he feels he can control the play exams, that he will never be able to truly experience the submissive role. He also had a need to go by a fictitious name, even though I knew what his real name was. When I suggested that we deal with the REAL "Him", and that I felt that I needed to perform the exams with less input from him, he decided he didn't want to "play" anymore. I don't feel I was out of line. I DO feel, however, that the man is totally missing out on the true experience of being a "submissive" patient. Any thoughts?

@kennypan I think your patient wanted a role play, not a true D/s relationship. In his mind he wanted a specific scene or experience, but not the actual loss of control, which can be very different. Two people might want to play Doctor/patient, but both may have very different ideas of what that entails.

Those of us into enema play know that there are many variations on the theme and we do not all 'fit' together. Some of us love enemas as a loss of control to get one, but not to release one. Others may want a full loss of control. Yet others only want a loving, sensual enema with partners who share equal power.

My kink may be your kink but not really. People often forget emotional or power negotiation before they play and end up disappointed. You couldn't make him want what he didn't. I don't think he was 'missing out' on the 'submissive patient' experience.

@kennypan I think ultimately the submissive has to 1. have trust in the dom 2. has to establish the parameters up front before letting go

To experience a truly submissive experience, be comfortable in it, and derive enjoyment from it, the submissive has to trust the dom enough to let go, while the dom stays within the parameters agreed upon ahead of time. If he was having trouble with this, then either an adequate level of trust was never fully achieved, he was just not comfortable enough to let go, or what he wanted in his mind couldn't match reality. Simply because in his mind, he had an idea how he wanted the dom to treat him, as if he could control the dom's actions all along. Then when the reality happens, the dom is his own separate person, which leads to a disconnect between the sub''s perception of how he wants things to be, and then what happens in a live situation.

Yes, I can certainly relate to this.

No I do not have medical degree or college education to know as much as many people on here but I do have reason I am submissive personality. I do not feel it is from growing up certain way or try to cover some thing up.

I feel submissive personality and experience submissive activities because it makes me feel good inside. I enjoy certain things and being with a partner that is fine with me being submissive both just casual and sexual. It is not for everyone I do understand that but if someone like me is comfortable and is happy to be submissive partner then that should be all that matters.

One has to be careful about the words they use, submitting and submission can be 2 very different things. A bottom will submit under given predetermined parameters but does not make them a submissive. A submissive yes does determine predetermined parameters but there submission is an intrinsic part of they psychological makeup. The same applies to a top or dominant! Several decades ago when I got into the scene, while finding out who I was and developing, I often examined interactions that were going on. I made several observations along the way which still hold true today. Here is one of them.

Dominants and submissives are born, but as with most things they must be nurtured so that they can blossom and mature. By Master Intrepid

First, let me say that while some people have said they want or participate mostly in non-consensual bondage, once it happens to them, they really do NOT want it. They call it non-consensual because they agree to it at the start, but after they have had enough [and that time happens for EVERYBODY] they want out and it isn’t non-consensual bondage if you let them go free when they say enough is enough. It isn’t non-consensual bondage unless they do not know who is dominating them or until many [24+?] hours have passed and they urinate and defecate in their panties and the mattress it soaked with urine and vomit while you ignore their screaming, cursing at you and demands to be set free. I have done genuinely non-consensual scenes and they do not play out as you think. I have posted about them on Zity.

Being submissive has nothing to do with non-consensual anything. A submissive gives up control and consents to the dominant’s whims with either implicit or explicit limitations. I do not believe a submissive gives up control as an excuse for anything. They simply enjoy being controlled or have been conditioned to being controlled. CEOs giving up control and seeing a dominatrix because it is a break from making decisions is bullcrap. It isn’t a matter of taking a break from making decisions, they simply want certain things done to them because it turns them on. Being restrained isn’t an excuse for being a lazy submissive and having your partner do all the work either, because you gave them permission to do that at the start.

I wonder does being brought up by a dominating mother change the focus. There was never anything sexual on her part other than just being a mother. I wonder is it easier to just let another make the decisions and give direction. I can see it as an escape if one can not make up their mind. Certainly I think I want to be told made to in all things. Not ever having been told in real time to other than enemas getting ready for them. I may have responded in the wrong place. I could recount things that I have done either from seeing in porn, reading in different places and a few instances following an online dominatrix. In lots was was easy to follow and is a cop out and I understand that.

I wonder does being brought up by a dominating mother change the focus. . . . . .

I doubt it. My mother and father were evenly matched and were only strict about school related work. Around the house, they were pretty lenient about things. I loved tying up my friends as young as 11-12 years old and I got very good at it. I had a lot of jump ropes. 😁 When I was a teenager, I bought long rolls of rope at the hardware store. I was always very dominant with boys. I knew they wanted to fuck me (and I them) and I enjoyed pulling their puppet strings. 😈 Score another point for vagina power!

. 😈 Score another point for vagina power!

I would have thought you'd use the term pussy power ... ha ha ha ha

I would have thought you'd use the term pussy power ... ha ha ha ha

Alliterations are nice, but I wanted my statement to be more clinical! 😁

Score another point for vagina power!

If you like alliterations, how about...

Score another vagina victory!

OR

Score another point with my vanquishing vagina!