Unnecessary Gyno Exams

It seem that I has been done at France too.. And maybe at many Europe countries, it was part of the Medical training..

I'm pretty sure nowadays that in medical school “beginner's” gynecological exams are taught using standardized patients (volunteers). The patients help train and provide interactive feedback to the students i.e. “you're doing it wrong”.

@Rabban_the_clyst @creekstone Right. It used to be done in France not so long ago (illegally, of course). They also used to do rectal exams on male patients under anesthesia.

I'm pretty sure nowadays that in medical school “beginner's” gynecological exams are taught using standardized patients (volunteers). The patients help train and provide interactive feedback to the students i.e. “you're doing it wrong”.

Johnnyz…

The article is from 2019 and said in 2019 that not all US states had banned this practice of doing pelvic exams while female pts are knocked out. Crazy, that this still could be going on. Says, that a female pt. signs a surgery consent and that some medical doctors think that should be enough and not detail what all will be done while the patient is asleep. Seems so wrong!

@Creekstone You mean this is still legally valid, at least in some states, as a consequent of broadly worded “consent” forms?

There was a similar scandal in the UK a few years back, with hospitals later ‘urged to seek consent’ but nothing more formal I can find. To me it's pretty close to sexual assault, albeit the cause (training medics) is not abusive.

Many years ago I read in the scientific press of strange but true experiments showing how some properly anaesthetised patients could nevertheless still respond to verbal commands in certain circumstances. At the time it caused shock that patients were not as unaware during operations as had always been assumed.

Derogatory comments during liposuction of a highly obese patient for example were suddenly seen much more seriously. So the idea of unconsensual multiple gyno exams whilst under, is alarming.

@Pecan_nutjob

To answer your question, yes in some US states it is still allowed as of 2019. Google, pelvic exams under anesthesia.

@Creekstone I suppose that they got away with it by having patients sign very extensive consent forms beforehand?

@Creekstone I can confirm what was said about France — there was a scandal, was it 10 years ago?, when this practice was found to be suggested in teaching materials. I think that hospitals had previously described it as urban legend or practices from days long gone.

@Creekstone I can confirm what was said about France — there was a scandal, was it 10 years ago?, when this practice was found to be suggested in teaching materials. I think that hospitals had previously described it as urban legend or practices from days long gone.

That's why I would never sign a consent form without reading it top to bottom, and if I could not fully understand it I would postpone everything until I had a lawyer read it.

I think perhaps this is now less of an issue than it used to be. My wife and I started dating in high school and every time she went to the doctor they tried to do a pelvic exam. She went to a med school clinic, and I am certain the students there saw it as an "opportunity" to practice that exam. It did not matter why she was there; they would come up with all kinds of logical reasons why she should just let them perform an exam. More often than not the doctor was male and she would refuse and ask for a female. You could see the disappointment in their body language as they were asked to leave and bring in a female resident. At this point in her life she no longer cares who treats her but upon reflection it seemed to be a way more frequent request when she was younger.

I don't know if this counts, but it used to be the case that a pelvic exam was imposed to prescribe oral contraceptives even though there is no relationship between the two.

Performing a gynecological examination without prior consent, whether the patient is anesthetized or not, is rape.

@Jacana Some historical information may provide reasons for these exams:

I don't know if this counts, but it used to be the case that a pelvic exam was imposed to prescribe oral contraceptives even though there is no relationship between the two.

I know during the 70s and early 80s it was common in the UK to perform a full gynecological exam every 3 to 6 months on women prescribed the pill for birth control. Doing a pelvic and breast exam was considered good practice at the time. Since no data was available on the long term use of the pill, doctors were advised to to perform full gynecological exams every 3 months.

From the data sheet of Microgynon 30, a pill which has been in use for about 40 years. This was a data sheet from 1998/99. "Examination of the pelvic organs, breasts and blood pressure should precede the prescribing of any oral contraceptive and should be repeated regularly".

This was usually by their local GP practice (most practices were single GP practice ...only the GP and receptionist no practice nurse) women were ask to fully undress and cover themself with a sheet .

So while it may seem to be to be unnecessary it was advocated by the drug company. Furthermore when the contraceptive pill was first introduced in the 1960s, pelvic exams and Pap smears were routinely advised for prescribing. Historically, doctors coupled these exams with contraceptive prescriptions to screen for cervical cancer, check for abnormalities, and maintain control over a powerful new medication.

Early high-dose versions of the pill carried notable health risks (like blood clots), leading physicians to perform comprehensive physical exams. The annual pill refill became a convenient vehicle for doctors to bundle routine, unrelated preventive care, like breast and pelvic exams.

Today, major health organizations—including the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG)—have completely separated routine pelvic exams from birth control access.

• No Examination Required: You do not need to undergo a pelvic exam, pap smear, or breast exam to safely obtain, renew, or start an oral contraceptive prescription.
• Necessary Screenings: The only standard requirement is a blood pressure check, as some hormones can slightly increase blood pressure.
• Why the Change: Research has shown that requiring unnecessary pelvic exams serves as a major barrier to contraceptive access. Exams are still important for overall health, but they operate on a different schedule than birth control prescriptions.

@RN1993 You don't detect blood clots or hormonal imbalance through a pelvic exam…

@Jackana Old pills, mentioned by RN, was used by long time to cure bad acne for teens and as birth control, but was old kind of hormonal with higher doze of hormones. On '90 meds haven't so many informations as now about hormonal panels and now they affected into women's body (eg. that are grown up of females which have depression mode by progesterone now) but was kind of correlation blood cloths with hormones and cigarette smoking (which was much often than now) or often intercourses can caused eg. yeast or STD infections so gynoes are conjoined it into exams.