Is the much greater concern for patient privacy and dignity a good thing, or more proof that we've all gone soft?

In the old days, when you visited the doc you were expected to ditch your clothes and shut your mouth. Now, they don't even remove your shirt to check your heart and lungs a lot of times. What happened there?

It appears so to me. I don't know why, though. I can see questioning the doctor if you don't understand something, or refusing something you feel to be unnecessary without explanation, or requesting a chaperone for intimate exams if you are more comfortable that way, but the doctor is a professional who has seen just about everything, and the door is closed.

I also grew up in the days when you were told to strip, either to your underwear or completely, and you didn't question it. It was just the way things were done.

Call me soy-boy, but I'm think it's a good thing. Yes, you know, that you will remove your clothes to get a normal examination. Yes, to do so is easier for the doctor himself, if he have a lot of patients. But patient also deserves to keep some dignity by being asked.

(next goes description of unappetizing examination process) Just a memory from school years: standard conscription examination of 15-16 y.o. men. Big room, filled with few medical specialists, and endless line of kids in just their underwear. Generalist, ENT, and others are not much of a problem, but I finally reaching operator(?)(in post-USSR it also means doctor, specialized on reproductive organs and skin diseases). And he just roughly pulling my underwear down, and starts to palpate my penis and balls. Then asks to retract foreskin, and starts to twist my penis in all directions, looking on penis head. Like a butcher, checking just slaughtered cattle. And all of it, I remind, in a room, filled with 3 dozens of other boys.

Can't say it is the worst memory in my life, but it clearly left it's mark. So yeah, I fully support this "soft tendencies" of asking to undress

It's fairly obvious that if the medical procedure being done doesn't require baring one's self, then why should a person be undressed? It adds time to each patient visit for dressing and undressing, which reduces the number of patients that can be seen, adds cost for the use of hospital gowns or drapes that will need laundering, and for what?

It's also worth a mention that some people, faced with having to disrobe for a medical exam or procedure, simply won't get it, just like they won't get colonoscopies. That's how much their dignity is worth--and sometimes it costs them their lives. (Older relative, lump in breast or rectal bleeding just too embarrassing...)

If giving patients their dignity is going soft, then I'm all for going soft.

And he just roughly pulling my underwear down, and starts to palpate my penis and balls. Then asks to retract foreskin, and starts to twist my penis in all directions, looking on penis head. Like a butcher, checking just slaughtered cattle. And all of it, I remind, in a room, filled with 3 dozens of other boys.

Can't say it is the worst memory in my life, but it clearly left it's mark. So yeah, I fully support this "soft tendencies" of asking to undress

Your doc's behavior sounds typical of an old military doc- no finesse or bedside manner whatsoever. Those whole process would probably be far less upsetting if the staff conducting it had some semblance of civility.

I’d say it should be respected without hindering a physicians ability to do their job. I always protect my dignity and modesty when dealing with a situation where I need to. A little empathy on the part of a medical person wouldn’t hurt.

I don’t think it’s being soft. I placed a thread a few weeks back asking about Drs and Physicians response to being examined and being placed in the situations that patients endure.

It was a very slight response, which makes me suspect that they don’t like to endure it anymore than anyone else has to.

I think it is because both male and female patients started complaining about the lack of privacy and dignity in being treated like how they felt about certain examinations didn't matter and that some providers straddled the line between abuse and doing a legitimate examination. I was born in 1961 and for the first I would say 30 years of my life there was very little control over anything in a medical setting. You were just told if a medical student was coming in too or if the nurse brought in someone to "assist", but then the medical field become more "patient centered" and started asking for consent. Now I have had providers that ask for consent every step of the way even if I give blanket consent to the exam. I personally find it annoying but younger patients may in fact like it. I don't think its going soft, I think its adapting to changing opinions on how medicine should be managed.

...I placed a thread a few asking about Drs and Physicians response to being examined and being placed in the situations that patients endure.

It was a very slight response, which makes me suspect that they don’t like to endure it anymore than anyone else has to.

Have you seen the William Hurt movie "The Doctor"? It's about exactly this, and how much his empathy grew after experiencing patient care from the other side.

I haven't seen it in a very long time, but I remember it being good.

I’m all for patient centric care. One thing people often forget when comparing exams of today vs 20 years ago is technological change. A lot of the invasive diagnostic procedures are no longer needed.

Have you seen the William Hurt movie "The Doctor"? It's about exactly this, and how much his empathy grew after experiencing patient care from the other side.

I haven't seen it in a very long time, but I remember it being good.

There's three parts of the movie that I still remember all these years later:

1. He was such an insufferable asshole that his first doctor cut him loose.

2. The terminally ill young woman he befriended, who gave him a much needed reality check.

3. The spoiled, creepy rich boy who constantly harassed the youngest daughter of the local family that he had befriended. The kid was such a douche that when the dad finally got fed up and beat his ass, his own buddies just stood by and let it happen.

I’m all for patient centric care. One thing people often forget when comparing exams of today vs 20 years ago is technological change. A lot of the invasive diagnostic procedures are no longer needed.

For real. We're getting close to an age resembling Star Trek: The Next Generation where a full body scan can detect EVERYTHING. That's great for accuracy and efficiency, but NOT so great for the human element of healthcare.

When WE were growing up, intimate exams were a rite of passage. For future generations, however, those may be nothing more than a historical oddity, kind of like x-ray machines in shoe stores and Bayer aspirin containing real heroin.

If giving patients their dignity is going soft, then I'm all for going soft.

Go too far with the soft and worrying too much about dignity and you might end up experiencing the ultimate in loss of dignity: developing a terminal disease that might have been prevented ...

Young people often have trouble imagining their own inevitable demise. So they end up placing emphasis on the wrong things. Good health trumps dignity any day in my book. Especially when you are nearing the end of your allotted days.

The Next Generation where a full body scan can detect EVERYTHING.

Remember the medical pod in the movie 'Prometheus' and how Naomi Rapace still wore a bra and slip when she went inside?

I would think that were such a machine ever to be invented, there would be no need at all to display any modesty about nudity. After all, no human is operating it and no one sees what is happening.

Perhaps such a technologically advanced medical science will cure us of our unnecessary prudishness about nudity. That would be logical.

I do not mind patient privacy; I just think office visits and or insurance coverages have gone way to much to one side. If I need to see a doctor for a minor issue like a sore throat which lasts for days or weeks or diarrhea/stomach problems which are not regular and you make an appointment, which in the past or at least 30 years ago would have been at least 30 mins is now 5 to 10.

As a kid, my family did not immediately make a appointment to see a doctor for the above mentioned symptoms. Only if they persisted did the appointment take place. Once I had an appointment, the visit included a exam. I guess that is why I always associated going to the doctor as a "strip to your underwear" sort of visit.

Currently, most of us even for routine medical exams are not even asked to take a shirt off.

I think a lot of this has to do with the insurance companies cost.

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These days, in the doctor's office, some patients can and will sue for sexual harassment, sexual assault, or sexual exploitation, even when nothing of the sort took place. Today, medical professionals conduct training in their organizations so everyone knows how to minimize the chance of being named in a lawsuit.

Gowns are used to provide modesty and only the area that is being examined is exposed. Also, the doctor will often have an assistant present as a witness who can testify that no hanky-panky took place during the exam.

In the past, I think it was much easier and more efficient to just be more exposed so any and all areas of the body could be examined quickly and easily, but these days some patients are looking for a chance to make a buck by suing for emotional damages because they can claim a doctor was getting their jollies looking at the patient's privates. So, doctors have become more conservative and careful to avoid frivolous lawsuits.

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Remember the medical pod in the movie 'Prometheus' and how Naomi Rapace still wore a bra and slip when she went inside?

I would think that were such a machine ever to be invented, there would be no need at all to display any modesty about nudity. After all, no human is operating it and no one sees what is happening.

@agracier you have to remember it was a movie and ratings are important for possible popularity. Too much nudity is not always a good thing. So some modesty is required. No matter what the future may actually hold.

@missStress Some people here joke that American movies are where people have sex but when they are shown still in bed after the woman wears at least a bra.

Some people here joke that American movies are where people have sex but when they are shown still in bed after the woman wears at least a bra.

What gets my goat in such movies is when a couple is going at it under the sheets no less and police/detective/mobster barges in, surprises them and the man jumps out of bed in his boxers ... oh boy, that must be a disappointing way of having sex ... ha ha.

Of course we knew it was because of prudery and to avoid controversy and such, but still ... they could at least avoid showing the boxers. That is gross and off-putting and sort of upsets the necessary suspension of disbelief needed to enjoy a movie ... 😃

you have to remember it was a movie and ratings are important for possible popularity. Too much nudity is not always a good thing. So some modesty is required. No matter what the future may actually hold.

Sure. Of course that's pretty obvious from a box office point of view. But it's still disappointing. I opt for realism in movies.

For instance like in the recent 'Warfare' where wounded soldiers scream and yell for half an hour on end or separate body parts lay strewn over an Iraqi road.

And I'd really like to see people wake up and go take a leak first thing, instead of kissing or playing a guitar and singing 'Blowing in the Wind' ... ha ha

No, I don't think that we (as a society) are going "soft" when doctors don't take off patients' clothing unless needed.

First of all, there is the Hippocratic Oath: First, do no harm. Unnecessarily invading on a patient's privacy and dignity does unnecessary harm and should be avoided. Hence, any attempts to "harden" (pun intended) society through forced nudity, should not be performed by doctors.

Secondly, there is the risk of inducing a fetish through such humiliation. Altough it's not scientifically proven and although mainstream (read: Neo-Marxist) doctrine dictates that sexual preferences, including fetishes, are innate and can't be changed, my personal experiences and the stories I read on this forum suggest that, yes, fetishes such a medfet can indeed be induced. Inducing any fetish should, from a sociatal standpoint, be avoided.

Call me a Catholic (I'm not btw), or conservative, or even reactionary if you like. But I strongly believe that anything that separates sexuality from its biological function of procreation, which includes fetishes, should be avoided. If I were to choose whether I had my own medfet or not, I'd definitely say not.

I think two things happened -

1. Societal attitudes towards casual nudity have shifted a lot. Americans especially are becoming more prudish, but other countries are shifting too. I think the ubiquity of phone cameras and the rise of the religious right are to blame. There may be good sides to this, but I think it is also causing a lot of people to be ashamed of their bodies. I knew a married couple who told me they only had sex under the covers with the lights off, because being seen by their partner killed the mood.

2. Evidence based medicine: Doctors are increasingly busy, so focus on the screening exams and procedures which are proven to be beneficial. patient embarrassment and reluctance is counted as a negative against a small beneficial diagnostic purpose. This is one reason why prostate exams and bi-manual pelvic exams are disappearing from routine practice.

@pl1574 I believe you nailed it, especially with the point about evidence-based exams.

I had a private medical 3 weeks ago at a centre I had visited twice sixteen years ago. Then, you undressed to underwear from the start. Now, the centre under new management and trendily refurbished, you open your shirt for the ECG, take it off completely for the heart and lungs, put it back on again and sit down for a few questions, roll up your sleeve for the bloods, then stand up and let your trousers down for the testicular exam. Far more efficient in my view to undress down to underpants from the off, and less likely that anything might be overlooked, all things being on show. I left with a nagging feeling that I had not really been seen, unlike the visits in 2008.

I had a private medical 3 weeks ago at a centre I had visited twice sixteen years ago... I left with a nagging feeling that I had not really been seen, unlike the visits in 2008.

That's still a more thorough exam than I've had in more than 20 years. I'd happily trade for what you recently received.