Hygiene as an obstacle

My wonderful (and only) patient uses the hygiene excuse for declining anything anal. A latex glove might just be extracted brown! LOL. Now, I’m not sure she is sincere in her objection, or whether this is consensual non-consent. Enemas are a no-no for The same reason.

Not an obstacle, it’s an excuse. She’s a patient? Then she needs to play along. Who’s in charge? She’s Topping from the bottom !

With all due respect, people are allowed to have boundaries. I make it clear what mine are. I also don't like butt stuff.

With all due respect, people are allowed to have boundaries. I make it clear what mine are. I also don't like butt stuff.

Agree. Then don’t play in medfet where your boundaries should be expected to be stretched. Or make it clear up front you don’t like anal play not some ridiculous excuse about fear of cleanliness. Just be honest like you said, “I don’t like butt stuff”.

Sorry, I don't agree. Medfet is like any other form of play and needs to be consentual. Consent isn't given for the other person to do whatever they like, it's based on boundaries which are to be respected, not stretched.

You took my comment out of context - I said "Or make it clear up front you don’t like anal play not some ridiculous excuse about fear of cleanliness. Just be honest like you said, “I don’t like butt stuff”. Set the boundaries out up front if there are hard limits!

Things that are inherently and universally abhorrent aren't ridiculous to exclude. That list is pretty short, pretty much just dookies, barf, and infections, but it's something we're hardwired to avoid., for reasons that I hope are clear.

You can claim those things don't bother you, but you can't be bothered or surprised by other people being bothered and wanting them excluded from domination play. It's not something you should need to specify ahead of time.

Now you wanna make tinkles on somebody, hey that's clean and harmless.

Then don’t play in medfet where your boundaries should be expected to be stretched.

Sorry, I don't agree. Medfet is like any other form of play and needs to be consentual. Consent isn't given for the other person to do whatever they like, it's based on boundaries which are to be respected, not stretched.

One might even argue that because so much of medicine requires consent and respect for the patient's privacy and dignity, a truly realistic medfet experience should be even more so.

With all due respect, people are allowed to have boundaries. I make it clear what mine are. I also don't like butt stuff.

And…

Medfet is like any other form of play and needs to be consentual. Consent isn't given for the other person to do whatever they like, it's based on boundaries which are to be respected, not stretched.

Agree @Newbie35 and @tjc . Boundries for each participant should be agreed to before any play begins no matter what fetish area one participates in. To just disregard those boundaries, or push them, goes against the basic principals of consent.

I'm sorry if you thought I took your comment out of context @Rigel - it appeared that you were suggesting that someone should expect their boundaries to be stretched.

Stretching a boundary beyond what has been agreed is assault. If someone suggests my boundaries might be stretched beyond what I've consented to, then then they might as well be waving a big red flag.

Personally the issue would not bother me but we can’t talk about that here. If she doesn’t want to do it though I’d never force anyone too. I’m not that type of person. Though I would try and get an honest answer as too why she didn’t want to do it. If she had limits I’d respect them. And I only have one limit really but I expect it to be respected if I was with someone.

My take from the initial post is that not wanting anything anal …"due to a hygiene excuse for declining … or that a latex glove might just be extracted brown!" is that's almost her invitation to get probed anally. Why not check it out and see if that isn't what she really wants - she should have a safe word to stop it if she really wants to. If she really doesn't want to be anally probed - she should just say “nothing anal”, versus making a feeble excuse. Tell her that if you can't do a complete exam - you simply can't examine her at all.

Many medfet players do push boundaries - restraints, blindfolded, holding enenmas etc. Hard boundaries are always to be respected - but pushing a little beyond the norm adds to the fetish. That's why we have safe words.

How about a little enema before?

@Pecan_nutjob the OP says…

My wonderful (and only) patient uses the hygiene excuse for declining anything anal. A latex glove might just be extracted brown! LOL. Now, I’m not sure she is sincere in her objection, or whether this is consensual non-consent. Enemas are a no-no for The same reason.

So it is a no go on the enema before hand.

Ideally it would be good if you could ask her if anything has ever been up there? People who simply never have often see anything anal as a dirty and baffling thing to do. Those who have experimented, even if just alone, see a pleasure side which starts to outweigh the unaesthetic aspects. It may well be that her hygiene refusal, which of course she's entitled to give, hides a lack of experience round her back door.

@Rigel uh no. That’s not topping from the bottom that’s a limit. 🤬No means no and consent should NOT be renegotiated DURING a scene.

@Nurse_Phillips If it came across that I was suggesting they renegotiate during the scene then I communicated poorly and apologize. The OP said he wasn't sure if she was sincere in her objection to anything anal due to “hygiene”. If she wants nothing anal as a hard limit she should say so - not dance around it. My impression (which may or may not be right) is that maybe she really isn't sincere - and possibly open to it with a little coaxing. Rather than just jamming a finger up her butt without warning, tell her (beforehand) that you need to do a complete exam and that includes a rectal exam. If you can't do a complete exam then maybe we should rethink the entire scene.

@Nurse_Phillips If it came across that I was suggesting they renegotiate during the scene then I communicated poorly and apologize. The OP said he wasn't sure if she was sincere in her objection to anything anal due to “hygiene”. If she wants nothing anal as a hard limit she should say so - not dance around it…If you can't do a complete exam then maybe we should rethink the entire scene.

What dancing is going on? She said no. I’m assuming the OP asked ’why not’ and she used the ‘hygiene excuse’. You both think it insincere. Maybe it is. Maybe she’s not comfortable saying no to an intimate partner and is using that reason to end the discussion. That’s not CNC, that’s a no. Accept it and move on. Threatening her with ‘maybe we should rethink the entire exam’ is, frankly, a shitty thing to do And may wind up with her saying ‘fine, then play with someone else.’ Enjoy what you have. You don’t get to decide that a sub’s no means something other than no. If you really want, ask her outright, “ I really want to do a rectal on you. Is there any way you would consider it?” And if she says no, then take it as a hard limit.

Guessing she just doesn't want anything anal in your play with her.

I always let my (male) “patient” know my “speciality” is proctology so they know what to expect. I wouldn't be doing my job as a “doctor” without doing a THOROUGH rectal/prostate exam. ;-) I had one “patient” say he didn't want me to examine his rectum and prostate… I told him in a firm tone, "I have given a lot of these exams and he would be just fine, now turn around and bend over the table”. I lubed him up and went to work.. pretty sure he enjoyed it WAY MORE then he was expecting. lol

As others, I think the hygiene reason is quite bogus. If you want to do anal and are worried about hygiene, you can use an enema, glove, condom, etc. Physicians use gloves to conduct rectal exams without hygiene issues. Seeing (not touching) poop on a glove is not a matter of hygiene.

Now, “hygiene” is likely just a pretext for “I find it disgusting”, “I find it icky", “it does not appeal to me”, “I fear it could be painful”. And these are matters of taste and consent.

Honestly, I find it appalling that some people appear to think boundaries are suggestions, or ‘no‘ really means ‘do what you want whether I consented to it or not’. Some of these comments are disturbing, and that’s putting it kindly.

How many times must it be said that no means no? It doesn’t mean let’s negotiate, it doesn’t mean try your best and see if she calls you on it, it doesn’t mean maybe just a little.

IF you are under the impression that a patient/sub is expressing reluctance as part of her character in a role play - but in fact is not reluctant at all - ask prior to ANY play what her comfort level is and how she wants to proceed, and clarify well beforehand any play acting that might occur. But never, ever assume that her denial is really an invitation or a lack of recognition that (in YOUR mind) an activity that she has said no to would be fun if she’d just ‘get over herself‘. Won’t hold up in court.

And frankly, if you are someone who is struggling with this concept, you should not be playing with others at all.

OP said:

Now, I’m not sure she is sincere in her objection, or whether this is consensual non-consent.

This is not even remotely a close question - there is a black and white answer here. If the parties have not explicitly agreed on it in advance, it is not “consensual” non-consent. So If you are “not sure,” then that means your partner has not explicitly agreed, and therefore this would NOT be consensual non-consent.

A boundary is just that. No really does mean no.

I have a boundary discussion with all my patients long before I get to clinic with them. That's where you find out what they're really into and what they're not at all interested in. And that's where you find out if there's some consensual non-consent on clinic day.

Every person is absolutely allowed to have their own feelings no matter what they are. If the 2 parties talk about the subject, enemas, sex, oral, anal or whatever, then they should be mature enough to come to an agreement. And that agreement should be respected.

And I AGREE WITH BROOKLYNE, "NO MEANS NO". if you can not agree to that then move on.

I also agree with @Brooklynne too, especially this part:

And frankly, if you are someone who is struggling with this concept, you should not be playing with others at all.

Whenever playing with someone, there should always be a discussion of boundaries and consent. That discussion needs to include EVERYTHING that possibly could be done during the scene/exam. Doctors/Tops/Doms, I've got some news for you. You need to disclose UPFRONT everything that you might possibly do to your patient/bottom/sub. No, you don't have to “give away” your “surprises” or outline everything in the exact order you plan to do it. (Yes, that's an excuse I've heard before!) But you need to get consent for everything you plan to do. If necessary, create a checklist that the patient can mark off approval or opt out of.

Listening to your heartbeat? Yes

Injections? Yes

Intercourse? No

Sexual stimulation? Yes

Anal exam? Etc.

Then, after this detailed discussion, the Doctor MUST only do what he has consent for. NO MEANS NO. “Pushing the boundaries” is not allowed; frankly, even in a long-term relationship, pushing boundaries should only come after much discussion - and consent!

And yes, if you can't handle the boundaries the patient has placed and negotiated, then don't play. It's not the patient's issue, it's yours.

I think I've covered this topic in another posting somewhere. But i have to agree about stating the obvious in any play scenario. A boundary is not something that can be changed in a scene. A persons likes or dislikes must be discussed before playing then adhered too.

Whenever playing with someone, there should always be a discussion of boundaries and consent. That discussion needs to include EVERYTHING that possibly could be done during the scene/exam. Doctors/Tops/Doms, I've got some news for you. You need to disclose UPFRONT everything that you might possibly do to your patient/bottom/sub. No, you don't have to “give away” your “surprises” or outline everything in the exact order you plan to do it. (Yes, that's an excuse I've heard before!) But you need to get consent for everything you plan to do. If necessary, create a checklist that the patient can mark off approval or opt out of.

Listening to your heartbeat? Yes

Injections? Yes

Intercourse? No

Sexual stimulation? Yes

Anal exam? Etc.

Then, after this detailed discussion, the Doctor MUST only do what he has consent for. NO MEANS NO. “Pushing the boundaries” is not allowed; frankly, even in a long-term relationship, pushing boundaries should only come after much discussion - and consent!

And yes, if you can't handle the boundaries the patient has placed and negotiated, then don't play. It's not the patient's issue, it's yours.

I’m still trying to figure out how much of the vocalized concern is genuine and how much is a bit of bratty topping from the bottom. LOL

I’ll retract some of my earlier posts. The issue should be discussed up front. If a dirty thermometer isn’t an issue with the doc, but she still doesn’t want it, her limit must be respected. I think she’s using it as an reason for not wanting anal stimulation that she just doesn’t want to talk about. That’s fine. If anal play is an important part of the docs med fet play and important to him, then maybe they aren’t compatible players, or he just has to respect it. My thought, right or wrong, was she was undecided and maybe her hygiene concern could be alleviated. But for whatever reason, if it’s a hard limit for her, establish it up front and don’t do it.

My wonderful (and only) patient uses the hygiene excuse for declining anything anal.

It's not an excuse, she clearly doesn't like anything anal. A lot of people don't for whatever reason, and for her it's a no no and you must respect that. From where I'm sitting it is certainly not CNC just a hard no. You can of course discuss this with her again before you play, but personally I would be content with what she is already giving you and leave it at that…

I'm a little confused here…You are advertising on Zity as a doctor and nurse team to meet female patients for invasive and humiliating examinations, how does that fit in with all this, is it the same woman?

As others have already said, a refusal to do something, or a refusal to allow something, needs to be respected and not second-guessed. If a request is declined, whether or not the actual word “No” is used, it should not then be taken to mean “Maybe” or “I don't really mean to refuse, I'm only pretending not to want it”.

This is a matter of prior consent. It is not up to any play partner to violate that consent by imposing or forcing any act on another person. To attempt to justify it by telling yourself it might be consensual non-consent just won't do.

I’m still trying to figure out how much of the vocalized concern is genuine and how much is a bit of bratty topping from the bottom. LOL

There is no need to “figure out” anything. That “… wonderful (and only) patient” could easily become a disgusted ex-patient, and with good cause. If you don't know for a fact based on previous experience, discussion AND negotiation that she is simply topping from the bottom then you should immediately stop this line of inquiry with Zity members AND your “wonderful patient”. Consensual non-consent is first discussed and agree upon, or it is not consent. nor is it “figured out” by one party who wants what the other party doesn't. Legally, silence, or even not explicitly saying, “no” is not consent.

It is not a LOL or any other kind of laughing matter, and I hope there is no validation for any part of the described opinion from other members.